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Refereeing decisions

Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Strewthcobber said:
Whitelock is onside at the ruck. Doesn't he remain onside once the ruck is over?
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Correct in the first bit, no in the second. Being onside but competing at the ruck means he is in front of the last feet and once the ruck is over can't play the halfback or make a tackle until he is put onside.

If the referee is suggesting that Whitelock still has rights to the ball in the ruck then Perenara doesn't have free reign to pick it up without interference. I don't think you could say that Whitelock hasn't gone for the ball until it is in Perenara's hands and the ruck is over (and at which time Whitelock would be offside).
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
Braveheart81 said:
Correct in the first bit, no in the second. Being onside but competing at the ruck means he is in front of the last feet and once the ruck is over can't play the halfback or make a tackle until he is put onside.
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What's the law on that? As far as I can see, only offside players need to retire behind the last feet once a ruck is over. No requirement for onside players to retire?
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Strewthcobber said:
What's the law on that? As far as I can see, only offside players need to retire behind the last feet once a ruck is over. No requirement for onside players to retire?
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I think it is dealt with under 10.9, 10.10 and 10.11. Offside and Onside in general play.

It is not clearly spelt out, but that's my understanding of it. It's why a player already in the ruck can't tackle the halfback after they pick up the ball.
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
Braveheart81 said:
I think it is dealt with under 10.9, 10.10 and 10.11. Offside and Onside in general play.

It is not clearly spelt out, but that's my understanding of it. It's why a player already in the ruck can't tackle the halfback after they pick up the ball.
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Those laws deal with offside players, which doesn't apply to Whitelock.

If he's bound to a ruck until it's over, stays on his feet, doesn't tackle a player without the ball, or deliberately slap the ball to the ground I reckon he is fine to tackle the half in open play after coming through the ruck.

Failed a couple of these on this particular play though!
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Tony Johnson on Rugby Nation yesterday declared it legit on the following basis:

- TJP has lifted the ball therefore any ruck that might have been formed is over.
- Sam W having been on his feet & supporting his body weight the whole time is entitled to come through & attempt to rip the ball. Apparently an attempted rip can't be a knock on.
- the ball contacts TJP's leg so he hasn't knocked it on but it then hits Savea who is therefore accidentally offside.

As we all know, TJ is scrupulously fair when it comes to all things Crusaders-related so it's case closed I reckon :)
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member

A change to the scrum laws effective immediately.

This is certainly very technical in that most viewers probably weren't aware it was a thing.
 
Brumby Runner

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
What does it mean in practice? Will the bind simply be binding on the opposite props with hands only? Is that really different from the situation now? Won't the weight still be on the opposite shoulders in the "set" position? Will it see the return of the hit on the set call?

I'm sure I'm missing something, but the change is not obvious to me as someone who has never packed down in a scrum.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
This image has been posted in the thread to highlight what it refers to.

D_CTkRuXYAAaxK7.jpg:large


I think this only really affects what hookers do, not the props.
 
VassMan

VassMan

Darby Loudon (17)
I stopped playing before pre-bind days but I think it stops the hooker from leaning head on shoulder to hold pack up before engage. Can't see what this law will change though? Can someone please explain more!
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
Won't change anything for vast majority of scrums packed.

Some teams are setting up with the hooker pushing their head against the shoulders of the opposition during the pre-engage. It allows the rest of the scrum to put weight through him before they are meant to be able to. The obvious downside is you have 800kg+ of force going through one neck if the timing goes wrong.

Will be a very technical and invisible free kick/penalty if it's ever given. Hopefully teams just stop doing it.
 
Derpus

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Strewthcobber said:
Won't change anything for vast majority of scrums packed.

Some teams are setting up with the hooker pushing their head against the shoulders of the opposition during the pre-engage. It allows the rest of the scrum to put weight through him before they are meant to be able to. The obvious downside is you have 800kg+ of force going through one neck if the timing goes wrong.

Will be a very technical and invisible free kick/penalty if it's ever given. Hopefully teams just stop doing it.
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Real question is what muppet voluntarily agrees to do this.
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Braveheart81 said:
I think it is dealt with under 10.9, 10.10 and 10.11. Offside and Onside in general play.



It is not clearly spelt out, but that's my understanding of it. It's why a player already in the ruck can't tackle the halfback after they pick up the ball.
Click to expand...


I find it easier to think of it this way - a player bound legally in the ruck cannot pull unbound opposition players into the ruck. ​

If the ruck is over players from the ruck are not onside as they are in front of the offside (last feet) line and hence they cannot tackle the half back from that position.​
 
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