Refereeing decisions

[Wilson]

Wayne Barnes has come out in support of the 20 minute red card:

Thuggery is no longer part of rugby – and that is why 20-minute red card trial is here

When it is so difficult to find consensus on the right decision it makes perfect sense to reduce the consequences of that decision

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[John S]

Wayne Barnes has come out in support of the 20 minute red card:

Thuggery is no longer part of rugby – and that is why 20-minute red card trial is here

When it is so difficult to find consensus on the right decision it makes perfect sense to reduce the consequences of that decision

www.telegraph.co.uk

I always liked Wayne Barnes - no nonsense ref

 

[John S]

Interesting that in the NZ v Eng game, AG was heard saying to the Eng captain "not every head knock is foul play" - it appears the Eng Capt had been bashing Gardiner's ear about every single head knock.

Will be interesting to see if his interpretation is consistent with other refs.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Interesting that in the NZ v Eng game, AG was heard saying to the Eng captain "not every head knock is foul play" - it appears the Eng Capt had been bashing Gardiner's ear about every single head knock.

Will be interesting to see if his interpretation is consistent with other refs.

That's pretty established, and consistent with the head contact process for the last 4 years or so.

I'd say that there wouldn't be any refs at this level who would disagree.

Where the differences will appear is what is foul play or not

 

[John S]

That's pretty established, and consistent with the head contact process for the last 4 years or so.

I'd say that there wouldn't be any refs at this level who would disagree.

Where the differences will appear is what is foul play or not

True, I think what I liked was his clear comms on it esp with the constant badgering from England.

I also thought that there were a lot more cards/penalties for the head on head collisions (similar to the Eng v NZ game) in RC and Super Rugby this year. I could also be wrong.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Pietsch shouldered off the ball in England v Australia. 16:55 on the match clock for those playing at home.

BOK has been widely criticized for not penalizing the English player who took Pietsch out of the game while chasing the kick.

Did he get it right?

 

[Tomthumb]

Pietsch shouldered off the ball in England v Australia. 16:55 on the match clock for those playing at home.

BOK has been widely criticized for not penalizing the English player who took Pietsch out of the game while chasing the kick.

Did he get it right?

On re-watch Ben Earl clearly kept running towards Pietch after the kick had gone and only ran towards the ball once he had knocked him over. He added a little push in there too

 

[Strewthcobber]

I don't think it's clear that it's illegal for him to change his line in this situation, as long as it's plausible in the direction of the ball

I assume refs will interpret by looking which way his body is facing.

Law 9.1 When a player and an opponent are running for the ball, neither player may charge or push the other except shoulder-to-shoulder.

 

[Highlander35]

Don't have footage of it on hand, but I'm interested as to how the TMO came to the decision of the red card on Cummings in the SCO-SAF game overnight.

I think that's a no brainer yellow: croc roll gone wrong, falls with sideways motion landing on defender leg, high risk of knee injuries, it might even be even spelt out as part of the new law variations. I'm just not sure where the escalation to red comes from.

Certainly didn't have a material outcome on the game though.

 

[Wilson]

Pietsch shouldered off the ball in England v Australia. 16:55 on the match clock for those playing at home.

BOK has been widely criticized for not penalizing the English player who took Pietsch out of the game while chasing the kick.

Did he get it right?

Live I thought there was something in it, but the front on replay shows it was fine. Earl doesn't have the narrowest of turning circles but has come around and straightened before any contact is made and is clearly chasing the ball. It wouldn't have been a terrible call if it went the other way, but Pietsch needs to do more to hold his feet in those situations.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Don't have footage of it on hand, but I'm interested as to how the TMO came to the decision of the red card on Cummings in the SCO-SAF game overnight.

I think that's a no brainer yellow: croc roll gone wrong, falls with sideways motion landing on defender leg, high risk of knee injuries, it might even be even spelt out as part of the new law variations. I'm just not sure where the escalation to red comes from.

Certainly didn't have a material outcome on the game though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1go4iev
The reddit thread has a video.

I think it's basically a red card if there is a real risk of a knee/leg injury. Yellow if there's potential risk.

For me the actions of green 9 here are enough to mitigate it down to yellow (at least). This red will get overturned

 

[swingpass]

Nice that Fiji beat Wales but the red card upgrade on the Radrandra tackle was very harsh imo. what say you?

 

[Strewthcobber]

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1go4iev
The reddit thread has a video.

I think it's basically a red card if there is a real risk of a knee/leg injury. Yellow if there's potential risk.

For me the actions of green 9 here are enough to mitigate it down to yellow (at least). This red will get overturned

Well, I got that one wrong. Cummings cops a week

“Having accepted that the act of foul play justified the red card and by applying World Rugby’s sanctioning provisions, the disciplinary committee determined that whilst reckless, the low-range entry point of two weeks was appropriate.

“With the full 50 per cent mitigation applied, based on an exemplary disciplinary record, good conduct and having shown remorse, the sanction was reduced to one week. The suspension will cover the following match: November 16 – Scotland versus Portugal.”

Edit - A bit more info.

Cummings banned under

9.20 e - A player must not drop their weight onto an opponent or target the lower limbs

Not the croc role law

9.20 d A player may remove the jackler from the tackle area by pushing/driving them backwards (including by grabbing the knee/leg), but must not roll, pull or twist an opponent.

 

[Tomthumb]

Nice that Fiji beat Wales but the red card upgrade on the Radrandra tackle was very harsh imo. what say you?

Yeah the Welsh player ducking down instantly after the catch made it near impossible for Radrandra to tackle legally

 

[Tomthumb]

Well, I got that one wrong. Cummings cops a week



Edit - A bit more info.

Cummings banned under


Not the croc role law

I still cant see the issue with this. He tried cleaning a ruck, accidentally lost his feet and instantly released the players shoulders

I think we are jumping the shark with banning guys for rugby incidents

 

[Strewthcobber]

I still cant see the issue with this. He tried cleaning a ruck, accidentally lost his feet and instantly released the players shoulders

I think we are jumping the shark with banning guys for rugby incidents

According to the judiciary, the issue wasn't the clear out, the issue was landing on the jackler's lower leg

 

[Tomthumb]

According to the judiciary, the issue wasn't the clear out, the issue was landing on the jackler's lower leg

It was completely accidental and pretty unavoidable in a ruck setting. He only lost his feet due to South Africa's 9 standing up on the wrong side of the ruck anyway

An utter nonsense

 

[Highlander35]

I don't have a problem with it being a yellow card offence to attempt a rolling/twisting cleanout and land on a leg accidently.

Being a red card without malice is slightly odd, but I guess as long as it's consistent it sets a standard.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I don't have a problem with it being a yellow card offence to attempt a rolling/twisting cleanout and land on a leg accidently.

Being a red card without malice is slightly odd, but I guess as long as it's consistent it sets a standard.

If they are consistent there are going to be a lot of reds cards dished out for this.

It does seem that difference between no issues at all/play on, and red card and suspension is going to be tiny, and ultimately dependent on how the jackler stands (leg straight, or put on an angle). Which seems a bit bizarre

 

[Derpus]

I don't have a problem with it being a yellow card offence to attempt a rolling/twisting cleanout and land on a leg accidently.

Being a red card without malice is slightly odd, but I guess as long as it's consistent it sets a standard.

If they are consistent there are going to be a lot of reds cards dished out for this.

It does seem that difference between no issues at all/play on, and red card and suspension is going to be tiny, and ultimately dependent on how the jackler stands (leg straight, or put on an angle). Which seems a bit bizarre

Lol