Refereeing decisions

[JRugby2]

Definition of forward in the law book = towards the opposition goal line.

Law 11.3


For almost all other knock-on elements in the law book, the ball itself must go forward, but for this one it's the "knock"

Its dead ball line, and you own the dead ball line you’re running away from when in possession, the opposite doesn’t make logical sense and would mean every backwards pass was forwards, knock backs would be knock ons, etc.

And I strongly disagree with your assertion that the “knock” is the key action in that sentence.

“A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm.”

To me - the sentence relies on the premise that the ball must travel forwards off the hand or arm, for it to be triggered in law. Ball goes backwards.

 

[Strewthcobber]

To me - the sentence relies on the premise that the ball must travel forwards off the hand or arm, for it to be triggered in law. Ball goes backwards.

The law makers used that wording for a reason. They specifically use a different wording for when a player is hitting or knocking the ball forward .

Refs used to take an even stronger view of this historically. You would be penalised if you knocked it forward and regathered

Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward,
or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm,
or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

 

[JRugby2]

The law makers used that wording for a reason. They specifically use a different wording for when a player is hitting or knocking the ball forward .

Refs used to take an even stronger view of this historically. You would be penalised if you knocked it forward and regathered

Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward,
or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm,
or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

Again, all of the definitions require the ball to travel forward, it clearly goes backwards.

Etzabeth in the world cup comes to mind here, ball goes backwards (apparently) so play on

Alex White on Instagram: "Should Eben Etzebeth have been penalised for a deliberate knock down? No. There is no such thing. The law prohibits a deliberate knock FORWARD. The ball has gone backwards. Play on. #rugby #rugbylaws #rugbyreferee #rugbyre

50K likes, 1,691 comments - aw_wild on October 15, 2023: "Should Eben Etzebeth have been penalised for a deliberate knock down? No. There is no such thing. The law prohibits a deliberate knock FORWARD. The ball has gone backwards. Play on. #rugby #rugbylaws #rugbyreferee #rugbyref #referee...

www.instagram.com

 

[Strewthcobber]

Again, all of the definitions require the ball to travel forward, it clearly goes backwards.

Etzabeth in the world cup comes to mind here, ball goes backwards (apparently) so play on

Alex White on Instagram: "Should Eben Etzebeth have been penalised for a deliberate knock down? No. There is no such thing. The law prohibits a deliberate knock FORWARD. The ball has gone backwards. Play on. #rugby #rugbylaws #rugbyreferee #rugbyre

50K likes, 1,691 comments - aw_wild on October 15, 2023: "Should Eben Etzebeth have been penalised for a deliberate knock down? No. There is no such thing. The law prohibits a deliberate knock FORWARD. The ball has gone backwards. Play on. #rugby #rugbylaws #rugbyreferee #rugbyref #referee...

www.instagram.com

I just disagree with you on that. A and C require the ball to go forward. B has a different definition.

B is written the same as the throw forward section of the laws.

Throw forward: When a player throws or passes the ball forward i.e. if the arms of the player passing the ball move forward.

 

[JRugby2]

I just disagree with you on that. A and C require the ball to go forward. B has a different definition.

B is written the same as the throw forward section of the laws.

Throw forward: When a player throws or passes the ball forward i.e. if the arms of the player passing the ball move forward.

agree to disagree - the inference of your interpretation is that it’s purely the action that trigger the law, not the outcome of the play, but to me this is inconsistent with how the laws are applied in practice. For example; it’s not an uncommon feature of an intercept for someone to knock the ball forward and regather before it hits the ground, which under your interpretation would immediately be a knock on (or even deliberate) the moment it travels clearly forward.

be interesting to see if Argentina challenge this and its clarified.