Refereeing decisions

[Brumby Runner]

Can I ask a question of the referees on here after watching last night's game from fairly high up.
Every time the Wallabies put up a (supposedly) contestable kick four AB's run in front of the guy who is to catch the ball, turn their back to the Wallabies, and then just hold their position forming a four man wall protecting the catcher. Now I am aware you are allowed to hold your position, but these four guys didn't just happen to be standing there when the ball was kicked, they run there so that they can then hold their position to protect the kicker.
Question: is that legal?
Two supplementary questions a) if not why isn't it penalised or b) if it is legal, why don't we do it?

Was a very obvious tactic which I thought was not legal. Interesting to get the experts' opinions.

 

[cyclopath]

Can I ask a question of the referees on here after watching last night's game from fairly high up.
Every time the Wallabies put up a (supposedly) contestable kick four AB's run in front of the guy who is to catch the ball, turn their back to the Wallabies, and then just hold their position forming a four man wall protecting the catcher. Now I am aware you are allowed to hold your position, but these four guys didn't just happen to be standing there when the ball was kicked, they run there so that they can then hold their position to protect the kicker.
Question: is that legal?
Two supplementary questions a) if not why isn't it penalised or b) if it is legal, why don't we do it?

If you move off your line and impede a chaser, it is a penalty. But "moving off your line" seems to be one of those things that is sporadically called. I would think if they run to form a wall, it is an offence, if they are roughly there and just hold the position, it's OK.
Edit - Rassie would know.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Every time the Wallabies put up a (supposedly) contestable kick four AB's run in front of the guy who is to catch the ball, turn their back to the Wallabies, and then just hold their position forming a four man wall protecting the catcher.

About time NZ started doing this, Ire and SA are masters at it

 

[cyclopath]

About time NZ started doing this, Ire and SA are masters at it

Told you Rassie would know.

 

[Dctarget]

We often get pinged for obstructing. Also thought it was interesting we got done for sideway entry to a ruck when Ardie was quite literally hurdling players from every angle bar the gate to ruck.

 

[molman]

We often get pinged for obstructing. Also thought it was interesting we got done for sideway entry to a ruck when Ardie was quite literally hurdling players from every angle bar the gate to ruck.

Our issue has been moving too late such that we're moving into/across paths, catching a lazy shoulder. The smart teams are performing organised drifts early and then present a closer to static picture when the opposition runner/challenger comes through.

If you move off your line and impede a chaser, it is a penalty. But "moving off your line" seems to be one of those things that is sporadically called. I would think if they run to form a wall, it is an offence, if they are roughly there and just hold the position, it's OK.
Edit - Rassie would know.

It should be a penalty and probably something the TMO with a nice birds eye view should be phoning in. It was pretty blatant on a few of those kicks. It is also an area where the Captain should have had a word with the referee to flag it. We're not good enough at managing referees around this. Montoya had a word with the referee re: the SA's not retreating on kicks which lead to a pealty later in the game, we should be doing similar.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Can I ask a question of the referees on here after watching last night's game from fairly high up.
Every time the Wallabies put up a (supposedly) contestable kick four AB's run in front of the guy who is to catch the ball, turn their back to the Wallabies, and then just hold their position forming a four man wall protecting the catcher. Now I am aware you are allowed to hold your position, but these four guys didn't just happen to be standing there when the ball was kicked, they run there so that they can then hold their position to protect the kicker.
Question: is that legal?
Two supplementary questions a) if not why isn't it penalised or b) if it is legal, why don't we do it?

I thought yesterday it reached a level where it has become a farce. It is time for World Rugby and the referees to act on it. However I think the referees are very prescriptive when it comes to game trends and they wait for World Rugby to tell them there is a trend that is not good for the game.

 

[Yoda]

My beef is that no assistant ref or ref, EVER polices the tactic of holding onto the ball or throwing it away when a team is penalised. It stops a team from taking a quick tap which is exciting…. And the big question is WHY??
So easy to stop the practice by marching a team 10m….
Any referees out there care to elaborate?
We are supposedly playing a professional game?
Also why has it crept in that a halfback rolls the ball into basically the second row now on a scrum feed? It’s like rugby league.

 

[liquor box]

My beef is that no assistant ref or ref, EVER polices the tactic of holding onto the ball or throwing it away when a team is penalised. It stops a team from taking a quick tap which is exciting…. And the big question is WHY??
So easy to stop the practice by marching a team 10m….
Any referees out there care to elaborate?
We are supposedly playing a professional game?
Also why has it crept in that a halfback rolls the ball into basically the second row now on a scrum feed? It’s like rugby league.

the referee wants chance to get a drink?

 

[Pfitzy]

If you move off your line and impede a chaser, it is a penalty. But "moving off your line" seems to be one of those things that is sporadically called. I would think if they run to form a wall, it is an offence, if they are roughly there and just hold the position, it's OK.
Edit - Rassie would know.

Here's where smarts come in:

Moving sideways off your line in a very obvious fashion is going to be penalised. We've seen it often.

However, chasing back into the line of the ball and then slowing down or stopping isn't illegal if you make it look good e.g. you stop so your team mate can leap for the ball and don't want to accidentally take him out (sir!).

It comes down to us being smarter and/or better, so I won't hold my breath (tho generally speaking we've improved our discipline).

 

[Strewthcobber]

So this is what is the law that is actually penalised.

A player must not intentionally prevent an opponent from having the opportunity to play the ball, other than by competing for possession.

Running off your line into the path of a chaser - going to be a penalty.

Running to a point and stopping before it's anyone's path - probably OK

But there's a lot of "it depends on the circumstances" about all of this

 

[Yoda]

the referee wants chance to get a drink?

A fair question with an idiotic response.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Here's where smarts come in:

Moving sideways off your line in a very obvious fashion is going to be penalised. We've seen it often.

However, chasing back into the line of the ball and then slowing down or stopping isn't illegal if you make it look good e.g. you stop so your team mate can leap for the ball and don't want to accidentally take him out (sir!).

It comes down to us being smarter and/or better, so I won't hold my breath (tho generally speaking we've improved our discipline).

What will happen is we will use the tactic and get blown off the park for it.

 

[Brumby Runner]

So this is what is the law that is actually penalised.


Running off your line into the path of a chaser - going to be a penalty.

Running to a point and stopping before it's anyone's path - probably OK

But there's a lot of "it depends on the circumstances" about all of this

Strewth, how in anybody's language can that be described as being in competition for the ball?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Strewth, how in anybody's language can that be described as being in competition for the ball?

I think what is being judged here is the "intentional" part of the law.

They aren't intentionally preventing a specific opponent form from having the opportunity to compete for the ball.

 

[Bullrush]

I don't know how you rule against it. Players are allowed to run towards the ball or to where the ball has been kicked. They are also allowed to stop running.

There is no real way to either stop players from running to force them to keep running. As long as they aren't changing their line to impede an opposition player from also running, what infringement would you whistle them for?

 

[Yoda]

I don't know how you rule against it. Players are allowed to run towards the ball or to where the ball has been kicked. They are also allowed to stop running.

There is no real way to either stop players from running to force them to keep running. As long as they aren't changing their line to impede an opposition player from also running, what infringement would you whistle them for?

Forming a wall…

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't know how you rule against it. Players are allowed to run towards the ball or to where the ball has been kicked. They are also allowed to stop running.

There is no real way to either stop players from running to force them to keep running. As long as they aren't changing their line to impede an opposition player from also running, what infringement would you whistle them for?

Obstruction. Has the same effect of a ball runner running behind one or more of his own teammates and effectively stops the opposition from contesting the ball.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Obstruction. Has the same effect of a ball runner running behind one or more of his own teammates and effectively stops the opposition from contesting the ball.

Not really the same thing though. The players in front of the ball career are offside and aren't allowed to impact play.

Players running back to where a kick will land are onside, and may play the ball - we just don't know if they will yet.

 

[Wilson]

I might be in the minority here, but I don't have that much of an issue with the tactic. There's still significant gamble in it - all those players providing a block are out of the game if the chase do get past and put a hit on the receiver, making it difficult to secure that ruck without really crowding that zone. Get a perfect block and it's not too much of an issue, but the better the block the more likely you are to be caught coming off your line and penalized. Similarly there is high potential for obstruction depending on the line the receiver chooses to run. I wouldn't mind seeing the refs get a bit stricter about this area after the receipt of the kicks, particularly ruck entry which often looks a bit lax to me, but overall I think the balance is right and it's part of the fine margins of test match rugby.

For the kicking team, the counter is keeping the kicks in a bit tighter and being on top of the chase, but they can also look to produce more true one on one contests by kicking to less contested parts of the field - cross kicks rather then bombs. These generally favour the chasing player as they can come straight onto the kick where as a defender can be moved around more, but the execution still has to be good, which it obviously hasn't from the wallabies recently.