Refereeing decisions

[Dismal Pillock]

"Angus, I've got some footage for you, the player in red appears to be slowly headbutting his teammate except he is using just his lips, I repeat Angus, he is using just his lips."
"Skeen you idiot, it's called a kiss."
"Happy to go with your onfield decision."

 

[Strewthcobber]

Kieran Read might be in a bit of strife for a shoulder charge to the head of the ball carrier against Canada.

Might get away with some mitigating factors because the ball carrier is 20cm off the ground.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...t-on-potential-citing-for-captain-kieran-read


3 weeks off for that, including a quarter final would open up a fair old can of worms.

 

[Dctarget]

Won't get cited, not humble Kieran.

 

[John S]

Not with the AB invisibility cloak

 

[formerflanker]

Kieran Read might be in a bit of strife for a shoulder charge to the head of the ball carrier against Canada.

Might get away with some mitigating factors because the ball carrier is 20cm off the ground.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...t-on-potential-citing-for-captain-kieran-read


3 weeks off for that, including a quarter final would open up a fair old can of worms.

I'm warming to Cheika's "I don't understand the rules any more" theme.
Even though Rumball is carrying the ball low, this is where it's tricky for modern-day defenders under the strict new rules as head contact is still a no-no.
Under World Rugby's high tackle framework, Read's shot may not be considered a 'shoulder charge', and perhaps fall under 'high tackle' instead, but if there is any head/neck contact, it's either a yellow or red card, depending on the 'degree of danger'.

 

[formerflanker]

3 weeks off for that, including a quarter final would open up a fair old can of worms.

Are they using "weeks" and not "games"? Short turnarounds may affect the impact of any ban.

 

[KOB1987]

I'm warming to Cheika's "I don't understand the rules any more" theme.
Even though Rumball is carrying the ball low, this is where it's tricky for modern-day defenders under the strict new rules as head contact is still a no-no.
Under World Rugby's high tackle framework, Read's shot may not be considered a 'shoulder charge', and perhaps fall under 'high tackle' instead, but if there is any head/neck contact, it's either a yellow or red card, depending on the 'degree of danger'.

You can be guaranteed they'll classify it as a high tackle with a low degree of danger, therefore yellow . Or they'll say there was no head/neck contact.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Let's work our way through the framework

Shoulder charge
Arm of the shoulder making contact with the ball carrier is behind the tackler’s body or tucked in ‘sling’ position at contact

Yes there is head contact. Shoulder to head

VIDEO SIGNS INDICATING HIGHER DEGREE OF DANGER
Preparation

• Tackler draws the arm back prior to contact - maybe
• Tackler may leave the ground - no
• Arm swings forward prior to contact - no

Contact

• Tackler is attempting an active/dominant tackle, as opposed to passive/soak, or “pulling out” of contact - yes
• Tackler speed and/or acceleration into tackle is high- maybe
• Rigid arm or elbow makes contact with BC head as part of a swinging motion - no

Follow through

• Tackler completes the tackle (as opposed to immediate release/withdrawal) - yes

Mitigating factors
(must be clear and obvious and can only be applied to reduce a sanction by 1 level)

• Tackler makes a definite attempt to change height in an effort to avoid ball carrier’s head - no
• BC suddenly drops in height (e.g. From earlier tackle, trips/falls, dives to score) - no
• Tackler is unsighted prior to contact - maybe
• “Reactionary” tackle, immediate release - no
• Head contact is indirect (starts elsewhere on the body and then slips or moves up resulting in minor contact to the BC’s head or neck) - no

That's the defense I'd be running with. Read was unsighted

 

[KOB1987]

Let's work our way through the framework



That's the defense I'd be running with. Read was unsighted

What does that even mean? Unsighted by who?

 

[John S]

What does that even mean? Unsighted by who?

At this stage Read hasn't been cited by the Citing Commissioner

 

[KOB1987]

At this stage Read hasn't been cited by the Citing Commissioner

no that's not what he's saying, it's in the mitigating factors:

Tackler is unsighted prior to contact - maybe

 

[John S]

no that's not what he's saying, it's in the mitigating factors:

Tackler is unsighted prior to contact - maybe

Yeah, ok, got to love the English language, words spelt different by sound the same my bad

 

[Braveheart81]

I think it's pretty clear that the All Blacks' best defence is just to remain uncited. It mostly works for them.

 

[KOB1987]

I'm assuming it means that if the ball carrier was unaware there's a tackler in front of him then that's a mitigating factor. Who decides if the ball carrier saw Read or not?

EDIT: In fairness at this stage Read is UNCITED, so the All Blacks aren't necessarily using that defence if he does get done. I can see why it's in there as a mitigating factor, but the tackler still has a duty of care, otherwise everyone would claim it - 'he couldn't see me coming, I studied the framework and it says it's OK to take his head off if he can't see me'

 

[molman]

no that's not what he's saying, it's in the mitigating factors:

Tackler is unsighted prior to contact - maybe

Thats awesome. So you can smack people in the face, just make sure you don't look at them?

Cheika: 'ok boys, I want to see lots of big hard hits out there today'
Team: ' but coach, what about all the focus on dangerous tackles'
Cheika: 'don't worry boys, if you don't look at them you can do whatever you want. I found this new mitigation to the laws. It's called unsighted. The NZ boys used it no worries'

 

[molman]

Kieran Read might be in a bit of strife for a shoulder charge to the head of the ball carrier against Canada.

Might get away with some mitigating factors because the ball carrier is 20cm off the ground.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...t-on-potential-citing-for-captain-kieran-read

3 weeks off for that, including a quarter final would open up a fair old can of worms.

It doesn't look good. No wrap. Hands clenched (isn't that one of those indicators). Direct head contact from what I can see.

In all seriousness, I really hope Read doesn't miss games for this. I want to see the best players out there playing. . . but then on the other hand I wouldn't mind it happening just so NZ could jump on board with the need for some of this stuff to be addressed. Just all these players getting pinged for rugby incidents.

 

[Bobas]

It doesn't look good. No wrap. Hands clenched (isn't that one of those indicators). Direct head contact from what I can see.

In all seriousness, I really hope Read doesn't miss games for this. I want to see the best players out there playing. but then on the other hand I wouldn't mind it happening just so NZ could jump on board with the need for some of this stuff to be addressed. Just all these players getting pinged for rugby incidents.

surely any mitigating circumstances should be dismissed as he's half a body length offside so the player going into contact is thinking that he's going to be retreating back onside.

 

[formerflanker]

Not with the AB invisibility cloak

I thought Sir Ruchie retired it?

 

[John S]

I thought Sir Ruchie retired it?

I'm sure it's still in force

 

[cyclopath]

I'm sure it's still in force

Hard to tell. I mean, you can only guess it's there, because it's not. Apparently.