Refereeing decisions

[Braveheart81]

I've made my peace with the two key Poite calls from Sunday. All I want is consistency from here on in.

One call still stands out as hamfisted and that's the offside whistle on Kepu. Yes, he shot out misreading the pass, but he immediately pulled himself up, rejoined the line and had no impact on the play. Given the context of the game I thought Poite pulled a hair-trigger when he could have acknowledged the self-policing of the player and respected that.

Yeah, I don't like this. Why do we automatically have a penalty here but then give players lots of leeway regarding releasing a tackled player who has got their knees to ground or competing for the ball at the ruck off feet or after the ruck has been formed until the referee tells you to release?

I agree with the concept of referees working with players to keep the game flowing and avoid unnecessary penalties but I also don't like that we are heading towards allowing players to break the laws until the referee tells them they need to stop.

 

[Tex]

Yeah precisely. Here's a player who has made an error and rectified it, which is distinctly different to floundering over the ball/tackled player in a ruck until he's told to leave it.

I don't know what they can do to address this situation they've created. They World Rugby expect perfection from refs and a free-flow of the game. The two are not quite, but almost incompatible.

 

[barbarian]

I get that, but he was offside. I've seen refs call play on, but I've seen it penalised too. I don't think anyone can be too disappointed about it.

 

[Braveheart81]

I get that, but he was offside. I've seen refs call play on, but I've seen it penalised too. I don't think anyone can be too disappointed about it.

No, not disappointed at all.

I guess it's just trying to reconcile it with the way other situations are refereed. The player(s) not letting go of a tackled player they are trying to hold up who has got to ground and should be released immediately has a larger effect on the game in terms of slowing down play but is given much more leeway by referees in terms of warning players.

It feels a little rugby league-ish that you are allowed to hold a tackled player down until such time as the referee tells you to let them get up.

 

[molman]

 

[John S]

That's consistency for you

 

[cyclopath]

I get that, but he was offside. I've seen refs call play on, but I've seen it penalised too. I don't think anyone can be too disappointed about it.

Happy to see it called. But call it all the time, not just occasionally. Offside adjudication overall is pretty haphazard.

 

[Tex]

I get that, but he was offside. I've seen refs call play on, but I've seen it penalised too. I don't think anyone can be too disappointed about it.

1. 1. A player who is offside at a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout remains offside, even after the ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended.
   2. The player can be put onside only if:
      1. That player immediately retires behind the applicable offside line; or
      2. An opposition player carries the ball five metres in any direction; or
      3. An opposition player kicks the ball.
   3. An offside player may be penalised if that player:
      1. Fails to retire without undue delay and benefits from being put onside in a more advantageous position; or
      2. Interferes with play; or
      3. Moves towards the ball.

Sanction: Penalty.

I don't want to harp, and may actually be reading the wrong clauses, but Kepu advanced to an offside position, realised and immediately retreated to an onside position.

Kepu didn't benefit from his early advance or interfere with play. You'd argue that he moved toward the ball, but this is negligible imo.

 

[Strewthcobber]

1. 1. A player who is offside at a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout remains offside, even after the ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended.
   2. The player can be put onside only if:
      1. That player immediately retires behind the applicable offside line; or
      2. An opposition player carries the ball five metres in any direction; or
      3. An opposition player kicks the ball.
   3. An offside player may be penalised if that player:
      1. Fails to retire without undue delay and benefits from being put onside in a more advantageous position; or
      2. Interferes with play; or
      3. Moves towards the ball.

Sanction: Penalty.

I don't want to harp, and may actually be reading the wrong clauses, but Kepu advanced to an offside position, realised and immediately retreated to an onside position.

Kepu didn't benefit from his early advance or interfere with play. You'd argue that he moved toward the ball, but this is negligible imo.

The ref (and Wales) would say he interfered with play bu cutting down the options available to the half

 

[Dan54]

FFS that is just another pointless picture, why oh why do we post these things with no concept of what's happening!!

 

[Dan54]

The ref (and Wales) would say he interfered with play bu cutting down the options available to the half

That's what I wondered Strewth, if a player shoots up, and goes back again, he could stuff up options for attacking team, no idea if that happened, and one of reasons I think we have to remember Rugby is a dynamic game and nothing can really be chiselled in stone.

 

[fatprop]

From the twitter

 

[molman]

FFS that is just another pointless picture, why oh why do we post these things with no concept of what's happening!!

Maybe you missed the smily

...for context, ~6th minute of game, Davis running at JOC (James O'Connor) leading with forearm, looks like JOC (James O'Connor)'s head snaps back as he slides down to complete the tackle. Personally don't think an issue, just pointing out the can of worms over there ... it looks open

 

[Derpus]

FFS that is just another pointless picture, why oh why do we post these things with no concept of what's happening!!

I believe it's a guy doing a thing that a guy from the other side got penalised for.

In other words, something that happens in literally every game of rugby since this shit kicked off.

Fucking idiotic. Kerevi should have lead with the shoulder and put the fluffybunny tackling like a sped in hospital like a proper rugby player.

 

[yourmatesam]

I don't want to harp, and may actually be reading the wrong clauses, but Kepu advanced to an offside position, realised and immediately retreated to an onside position.

Kepu didn't benefit from his early advance or interfere with play. You'd argue that he moved toward the ball, but this is negligible imo.

This was a very frustrating penalty for mine... No material effect, acknowledged his action, play on in my view. This is an opportunity for the referee to proactively manage offside and show the teams that he acknowledges the player retreating but also warn him to be better disciplined next time.

If the team does it again, PK for sure but not in that instance.

The flip-side to that argument is that Kepu forced the referee's hand, making it such an obvious get for the referee that he had no choice but to show compliance to the standards across the game.

Some would call that a clear and obvious infringement, some would say it's a great opportunity to manage a PK out of the game. I prefer the latter method.

 

[Tex]

All I know is that I would't be a ref at this level for love nor money. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

[John S]

All I know is that I would't be a ref at this level for love nor money. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Some refs though just make it really hard to not be critical, not sure how many these days actually allow the game to flow, and are consistent across a game.

Got to admire their intestinal fortitude though.

 

[molman]

All I know is that I would't be a ref at this level for love nor money. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Some refs though just make it really hard to not be critical, not sure how many these days actually allow the game to flow, and are consistent across a game.

Got to admire their intestinal fortitude though.

Of the Aussie refs, I've got to say so far I've been impressed by Nic Berry, he seems to be handling it well, seems very composed, positions himself well, communicates clearly and he's fit so he gets to the play quickly and keeps out of the way. I've historically liked Angus Gardner, but he seem a little nervy and seems to be struggling a little more finding the balance. It could be the games he's had. I didn't think that Arg/Fra game was his best and he just looked a little on edge in that Ire/Jpn game.

 

[Up the Guts]

Of the Aussie refs, I've got to say so far I've been impressed by Nic Berry, he seems to be handling it well, seems very composed, positions himself well, communicates clearly and he's fit so he gets to the play quickly and keeps out of the way. I've historically liked Angus Gardner, but he seem a little nervy and seems to be struggling a little more finding the balance. It could be the games he's had. I didn't think that Arg/Fra game was his best and he just looked a little on edge in that Ire/Jpn game.

I think Angus is a referee who moves much more with the flow of the game and is happy to let some things go. When WR (World Rugby) come out and say they’re not happy with certain decisions and put an emphasis on ruling to the letter of the law I think he feels the pinch a lot more.

 

[yourmatesam]

All I know is that I would't be a ref at this level for love nor money. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

World Rugby are certainly not helping referees. While I totally support constructive feedback on referee performance, the peak organisation needs to support the officials.

I think the role of the TMO has a lot more to do with the game now. What I feel we're seeing at the World Cup is the influence of the TMO becoming much more significant. For the AusvWales match, Poite was put in a position by the TMO where he had no choice but to follow the framework and then it ends up where it ends up.

The gold-like powers of the TMO need to be reined in a bit I reckon, or the referee needs to be supported when he tells the TMO (Kent) to f@rk orf.