Reds vs Crusaders Super Rugby Rd11 2012

[Slim 293]

The amount of times I've seen you have a bitch about a Brumbies or Wallabies
loss, can't say you're in a position to judge mate.

I've never carried on in a "we wuz robbed" manner following a loss, or blamed a referee for a loss...

I've regularly criticized aspects of a referee's game... and even after a few beers during a game let out some tirades regarding decisions made (usually live on the shoutback, and quite often regret upon sober reflection)...

But I don't blame referees for losses...

 

[tragic]

Hey guys, I don't think AS really meant to say "suck it up", but was pointing out that shitty calls happen all ways. We all bitch when they happen to our team, fair enough.
Don't turn on other posters.
Blame the powers that be that continue to endorse Bryce. Even the Kiwis don't get him most of the time!

The people living with me are more than knowledgeable on the game of Rugby, thus whilst I will watch the game again - I do trust their analysis as they follow all sorts of teams, including the Reds, but seem to be a lot less biased than in here.

I understand, your team lost, your not happy. Christ, I'll stick to updating my bit on club rugby than deal with this shit. Have fun. Be happy its my last post in here.

What shit?? Just saying your comments would hold more sway if you'd actually seen the game and had some personal insight into why some of the posters were pissed.
For what its worth I actually sympathised with the saders in the final last year and with the Saffers in the RWC QF. It is always better to win a game by a clear margin/dominance that by a few contentious decisions, and in those situations a bit of grace in victory goes a long way.
Otherwise it becomes the predictable and often repeated scenario of "we was robbed" vs "sore losers"
Did the saders deserve to win - sure
Did the refereeing influence the outcome - maybe
Does it matter - nope, its history
No offence meant.

 

[ACT Crusader]

"Reward the stronger scrum". This is a term the Kiwis like to use but it is causing some confusion amongst referees and is encouraging stronger teams to cheat in their dominance

I'm kiwi and I have never used that term before. Not sure why you're painting all "Kiwi's" with the same brush. Its like reading a couple of comments off this site and saying its what Aussies think.

I actually thought the scrum was a good battle. Much of what I saw was about the team getting the better hit and putting pressure on the opposition from there on in - that went for both sides.

 

[redstragic]

Tough place to win is Saderville. We are definitely back though, the last rounds of this year are going to rock as we try to peg back the Ponies lead.

 

[redstragic]

I'm kiwi and I have never used that term before. Not sure why you're painting all "Kiwi's" with the same brush. Its like reading a couple of comments off this site and saying its what Aussies think.

I actually thought the scrum was a good battle. Much of what I saw was about the team getting the better hit and putting pressure on the opposition from there on in - that went for both sides.

Bloody Phil Waugh kept going on with it in the presser after the RedsvTahs at Suncorp last year. I've never heard a Kiwi say it. Then again I have a tough time with your accents so you might be saying it all the time for all I know.

 

[Country Kid]

Just watched a replay of the game. A very dissappointing loss by the Reds. Leaving aside the Reds many handling errors (whilst in attack) and perplexing referee decisions, there were numerous wasted opportunities by the Reds including:

12th minute: Reds miss the kick for touch - a missed chance to have an attacking lineout inside the Crusaders 22, especially when the Reds were looking so good and the Crusaders were well off their game at that early stage.

38-39th minutes: Reds attacking the Crusaders line. Initially it looked good with forwards taking it forward but it became too pedestrian, too predictable and too easy for the Crusaders to hold them out - the situation was crying out for some variety in the Reds attack.

64-65th minute? The Yellow card: Reds kicked the penalty - and superficially it looked good for the Reds. But the situation surely demanded that the Reds kick for the line and keep the 14-man Crusaders defending on their line for as long as possible - to ruthlessly grind down the Crusaders while they were a player short.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Didn't they regain the lead on the Yellow Card penalty?

 

[twenty seven]

God forgive me - but isn't this rugby - mistakes will be made, ALWAYS. It is not a perfect science so breaking down the game as to pinpointing the mistakes won't count, especially if you consider the influence a ref can have on the game, yes, influence. You could say that that mistake wouldn't have been made if he had called the penalty where it should have been called and Blah Blah Blah. It's all what ifs and maybe's.
Reds lost but god it was good to see some of the fight that won the comp last year.

Slim have you ever heard of the Gooley ( pardon the spelling) Bird?

 

[RedsHappy]

Have to say it's both heartening and interesting to see the number of Kiwi and Cru supporters in their Comments below the text of this article in stuff.co.nz who categorically state the Reds as the better team and/or that Bryce handed them the match:

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/6869068/Crusaders-avenge-Super-final-loss-to-Reds

 

[Schadenfreude]

Except they are probably reds supporters.

 

[RedsHappy]

Maybe, but their net names appear not, and why bother, you're not going to alter opinions in NZ with fake protests on an NZ site...so they seemed genuine to me.

 

[Cave Dweller]

I'm kiwi and I have never used that term before. Not sure why you're painting all "Kiwi's" with the same brush. Its like reading a couple of comments off this site and saying its what Aussies think.

I actually thought the scrum was a good battle. Much of what I saw was about the team getting the better hit and putting pressure on the opposition from there on in - that went for both sides.

Not painting all Kiwi's as I am a fence sitter. It is a Kiwi Term meaning originated from NZ which were adopted by others. Unfortunately like most terms or statements there is the dualism (two faces) that comes into the equation.

What I mean by that is that a statement is used to explain a thing but the important factors surrounding it are left out normally by the press, public or even by a referee starting his trade. Just to show you lets take that statement again.

Reward the stronger scrum.

One team is stronger than the other team but how did they gain that advantage? A referee will penalize the one team on that principle without applying cause and effect and encourage positive scrumming, and penalize negative scrumming. The stronger scrum can be obtained by illegal ways so the one who can get away with cheating in one scrum will get away with it all day while the opposition getting penalized.

What it should have said with it is that Reward the stronger scrum when the upper hand was contain by legal methods I.E encourage positive scrumming penalize negative scrumming. For one to gain the upper hand illegally is so easy if a ref do not know or have not been assisted by someone who has experience in the front row or the cause and effect of why a scrum goes down why it wheels why the front row pop up sometimes.

Just to give you one example is the eight man. That man alone not binding property can win a scrum for his team and contributes to early engagements. If his head is not in between the locks ans not bound properly he can ignite the hit the refs call it the slingslot. But the players has gone even further with cheating when they look at the ref and the ref sees them they say they cant hear the calls if the ref can make it louder. Then he will ignite the hit on pause and the scrum will collapse and the opposition penalize. Job done ref fooled the stronger scrum will be rewarded whole day. Did you know that simple thing can collapse a scrum? Not many do nor refs and you will see the focus will always be on the front rowers. The top referees has been trained and assisted by front rowers so most of the calls may look bad to the observer but to the ones who know the cause and effect of problems in a scrum will agree with the ref.

Watch this

But listen to Nathan Charles afterwards

“but we are the dominant scrum”

Where the ref replied

“It doesn't matter whether you're dominant, you've got to scrum within law.”

That was a good call by the ref as Pek Cowan dropped the binding twice and putting his hand on the ground to achieve the dominance.

Do you see how that statement is taken out of context by even players. I am sure Charles did not see what Pek did there.

 

[Ruggo]

Hey guys, I don't think AS really meant to say "suck it up", but was pointing out that shitty calls happen all ways. We all bitch when they happen to our team, fair enough.
Don't turn on other posters.
Blame the powers that be that continue to endorse Bryce. Even the Kiwis don't get him most of the time!

We have all benifited or suffered from Bryce's shitty refereeing at some stage. As a Reds supporter I find this blamming the ref crap embarrising. We played good but the Saders played that little bit better and got the job done.

As a collective group (not individuals) we Reds fans do need to suck it up and stop carrying on like sore losers.

Just one little thing. We contained Fruen as I thought we would.

 

[Ruggo]

Okay I'll rephrase. I don't think he was blowing to favor the McCheatsaders. HE was just horribly shot all round and one of his tricky bag "blow as I go" efforts resulted in a game changer.

I liked your shit sandwhich analogy much better.

 

[tragic]

Except they are probably reds supporters.

But they match the sentiment on the silver fern as well. They were a little more magnanimous over there than the kiwis on this site....

"Lawrence a disgrace. The Gill penalty was a joke and one before that for a McCaw steal was ridiculous as well. McCaw was not supporting his bodyweight..nowhere near it.
Really don't blame Aussies et al when they complain about Bryce. His whistle should be removed from him. Awful.
Saders handing was just abysmal; their overall protection of the pill was awful. I can't imagine Blackadder or anyone else at the 'Saders could be happy with that performance; they'll love the win but it was far from convincing and I really think that the decision by Lawrence to penalize Gill and thereby gift th lead to the Saders was pathetic."

 

[Ruggo]

With all due respect, who can learn and adapt to Bryce? He's like the Da Vinci Code in Klingon.

Yep. He tried reffing something and still stuffed it up. Both of these sides push the limit at the breakdown and he could or should of just let em scrap it out. I wish he did.

 

[gel]

Nah, they look like reds supporters...

Sheesh, this happens almost every time Bryce refs a game... The main talking point afterwards is how badly he managed the game and almost nothing about the actual players who played. I don't think this happens as consistently with any other ref that I know of. He just polarizes the supporters in a way that defies belief - like nature has somehow transformed the thoughts of religion, politics and global warming into a material pile of excreta and said "here, go ref some rugby games to REALLY stir things up!!!"

I hate it when a team I support benefits from his crap reffing, and I hate it when a team I support bears the brunt of his munted mind. Both make me feel like I have missed out on something special.

 

[Cave Dweller]

But the kiwis started the Bryce trend! Now they are defending him lol Gotta love this.

Read this 2 rounds ago

Super Rugby Round 9 - Is Bryce Lawrence Up To Rugby Refereeing?



First the Saffers complain about him the Aussies say get over it. NZ complain about him Saffers say Yes Yes see Aussies say Geez will you get over it already! Now Aussies complain NZ say stop bitching haha

I am waiting for the Saffers now. This should be interesting lol

 

[RedsHappy]

I've been thinking, and positively so.

Isn't it very clear that we largely out-tacticed, out thought, and, for large tracts of the game, outplayed the mighty Cru at home today? Just some highly identifiable, but small in number, errors or imperfections cost us, mostly via Harris and the sadly depleted Davies. Add in a routlette wheel as ref - depends what day you get him - and our loss was by far the most valiant and pride-enhancing we have had in many a year (and a loss of a certain kind can be just that).

I feel great about our team for the first time since July 9, 2011. The Reds 'magic' is back, or mostly back, one senses. Long may it run. Now we need the maestro to return at 10.

*How often do the Cru not secure a single try at home?* Extremely rare outcome. Our defense was outstanding, at last, back to 2011's best. Attitude can't be faulted. Perhaps there has been more turbulence behind the scenes than we shall ever know, and perhaps the Genia come-back-home has had a more calming and harmony-restoring effect than we'd ever understand, out here with only our keyboards and our observer's passion.

Just so much to feel great about. Once more. Respect. We can begin again.

 

[biggsy]

wooooooo hooooooow internet, flew over to NZ just for this game... I could not be more proud of the reds tonight. Should have won but it didn't happen. The feeling through out Christchurch and crusader supporter was ghostly most of the game. And even know they won, theres not to much to be proud of as the Reds had them covered in all aspects of there game except 80% of the Scrums
Beside the last penalty with Gill which was the best call all night by bryce. (that kid has to pull his head in.)...
We had the game won but Harris shoe was off, sucked but thats Rugby. Im not going to carry on with poor excuses for the Reds tonight. We lost but and it came down to poor discipline.... Beside that, one of the inform teams at the moment got punished, and the chief's better come to Suncorp Ready to play.

I can see this Reds team staying together for a few years to come. Next year Reds / Brumbies for the big battles.....

If any other team want's to beat the Crusaders, play like the Reds get the goals kicks/penalties, and hope to fuck that Bryce isn't the Ref.