Reds v Waratahs, round 4, Saturday 7 March

[Godfrey]

A positive for the Reds was again Liam Gill I thought. Two moments in particular stood out to me. One was a 1 v 1 contest in the ruck, on equal terms, with Will Skelton where Gill demolished him. I'll try and find it, I thought at the time that Cheika surely noticed it.

 

[Ruggo]

It absolutely and completely amazes me that Graham cops all the blame and no one, and I mean absolutely no one nentions the work the backs coach does. Do you guys even know his name?

Steve Meehan. I hope the door don't bite him on the arse when they both get the boot (and I now hope they do).

 

[Scoey]

The Reds were terrible but it wasn't like it was an outlier in terms of performances.
The Tahs weren't much better but I think it's fair to expect a much higher level performance of them than the Reds.
The Reds haven't come close to fielding the same team two weeks in a row and it's somewhat understandable that they look as lost as they do. The Tahs on the other hand have had a much more settled team and have the benefit of an effective game plan. Last night the Tahs execution let them down. Individually they were pretty rubbish.
Don't get me wrong, the Reds deserve all the criticism that they get but I'm not sure why the Tahs are escaping the same level of criticism.

 

[Gnostic]

You blokes attacking Beale over the Turner incident need to stop and think of the processes involved in decision making under such circumstances. It is a long bow to draw to attack a bloke (who I have been hyper critical of so don't confuse me as a supporter) for not offering aid in such circumstances. Look at the focus of the individual. At this point Beale had nothing to do with the tackle and was focused totally on the ball, looking for the pass etc. His movement post tackle shows this focus. It is a type of tunnel vision that intense focus will develope. It is why players at elite levels react as quickly as they do, such as when they charge down a ball. It does however blind them to peripheral details, he would have noted that Turner was down and not in contact with the ball. His thought process was all about the ball. It says nothing at all about his concern or lack of it for the welfare of Turner.

People have quote the Ben Darwin incident, and could also quote the Jerry Collins tackle on Colin Charvis or the Lima tackle on Derek Hougard. The difference in both those cases is the focus was on the player injured and not the ball. Hence they identified the injury immediately. In the cases of Collins and Lima they had no idea where the ball was as it wasn't their focus.

Please give the moral attack on Beale a rest, there is no evidence to support it in this matter.

 

[Ruggo]

I wasn't talking about Beale, I would have to watch that play again to see what happened there. It was in reply to BH's comment who said in professional sport the referee decides when to stop play, I don't agree.. If someone is injured or at risk of injury you don't play on for the sake of playing the whistle if they are in the area of the play.
The referee doesn't see everything, players are the first to identify injuries as they hear a crack, a snap, or a scream of pain in the collision or contact.


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Yep I agree. I think the biggest ethos of Rugby is at the end of the day it is just a game. Some things are truly more important. Probably fair to give Beale the benefit of the doubt in this case because I don't believe any rugby player would do that deliberetly but the sentiment of playing the whistle only extends to when your fellow players are safe and healthy. Ben Darwin is a great example and I don't remember Chris Latham playing the whistle during the Huxley incident. At the end of the day we all take the field to play hard yet still play to enjoy it but when it is over we are all mindful of the reality that we have to be healthy to make our respective living to support our lives and those we care for regardless of whether it be in the game or not.

 

[Fireworks]

Another disappointment from last night: JOC (James O'Connor)'s goal kicking.
Looking forward to QC (Quade Cooper) returning for the lions match.

 

[Marcelo]

At least we made a try!!!



The game was the Knock-on game or something like that. At least in the first half.

 

[Forcefield]

Sully, plenty of people have mentioned Meehans name. But ultimately RG is the head coach and he is responsible for his assistant coaches.. If he identified deficiencies in assistant coach in 2014 or even during the NRC he should have taken steps to fix that or replace him.


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Or when Meehan revolutionized the Force's attack in 2013?

 

[Gnostic]

The Reds were terrible but it wasn't like it was an outlier in terms of performances.
The Tahs weren't much better but I think it's fair to expect a much higher level performance of them than the Reds.
The Reds haven't come close to fielding the same team two weeks in a row and it's somewhat understandable that they look as lost as they do. The Tahs on the other hand have had a much more settled team and have the benefit of an effective game plan. Last night the Tahs execution let them down. Individually they were pretty rubbish.
Don't get me wrong, the Reds deserve all the criticism that they get but I'm not sure why the Tahs are escaping the same level of criticism.

Because at least they played with some intent and stuffed it up through basic skills execution. The Reds have been like this for two years, and deteriorating since 2012. Injuries are an excuse, and one could say that Carraro making his 5 ever start in Super rugby playing in the hardest defensive position in the backline did better in terms of attack and defence than seasoned veterans in the Reds.

I might also point out the Tahs didn't field a team last week so they don't have consistency either.

 

[Gnostic]

Steve Meehan. I hope the door don't bite him on the arse when they both get the boot (and I now hope they do).

Its funny, as I said a few pages back, Graham, Foley and Kirwan all have sides that play patterns we have seen teams in other jersey play when coached by the same people. If an attack/backs coach has a huge input surely the signature wouldn't be as stark.

 

[Braveheart81]

I watch more than I shoot. But both options would give me more insight than you.

You don't think 30 rums would improve your insight to be on the same level as the venerable Biggsy?

 

[RedsHappy]

Another disappointment from last night: JOC (James O'Connor)'s goal kicking.
Looking forward to QC (Quade Cooper) returning for the lions match.

Yes, oh yes. I could be wrong but at the game last night observing him from the get-go, I thought his confidence was in shreds.

JOC (James O'Connor) should have been developed as a 12, but never was. If not that, and it's likely too late in his career for that, he's a winger only.

He's surely not a natural 15 or 10, and he looks and plays there like a fish out of water.

The heart of the recent matter is that RG badly mis-planned his approach to a back up for QC (Quade Cooper). He recruited a green, young rookie for that role, possibly as he'd over-spent on the other 'stars' designed to re-boot the whole team into a dazzling 2015 success. And of equal consequence, players like Harris and Lucas were dispensed with.

Once that rookie inevitably failed in such a demanding, exposed role, panic stations were called and we've had endless experiments at 10, none of which have been close to equalling how Lucas would have sufficed if he'd not been jettisoned.

 

[TOCC]

You blokes attacking Beale over the Turner incident need to stop and think of the processes involved in decision making under such circumstances. It is a long bow to draw to attack a bloke (who I have been hyper critical of so don't confuse me as a supporter) for not offering aid in such circumstances. Look at the focus of the individual. At this point Beale had nothing to do with the tackle and was focused totally on the ball, looking for the pass etc. His movement post tackle shows this focus. It is a type of tunnel vision that intense focus will develope. It is why players at elite levels react as quickly as they do, such as when they charge down a ball. It does however blind them to peripheral details, he would have noted that Turner was down and not in contact with the ball. His thought process was all about the ball. It says nothing at all about his concern or lack of it for the welfare of Turner.

People have quote the Ben Darwin incident, and could also quote the Jerry Collins tackle on Colin Charvis or the Lima tackle on Derek Hougard. The difference in both those cases is the focus was on the player injured and not the ball. Hence they identified the injury immediately. In the cases of Collins and Lima they had no idea where the ball was as it wasn't their focus.

Please give the moral attack on Beale a rest, there is no evidence to support it in this matter.

I was the one who mentioned the Darwin incident and I don't care about what Beale did last night I don't even remember him doing what people have alleged..

I made the Darwin comment in reply to another who said its professional sport and players should play the ref.. I said I disagree and gave my reasons previously..

Not everyone commenting on this subject is going on a moral attack against Beale.


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[Marcelo]

JOC (James O'Connor) 0% effectiveness

 

[Scoey]

Because at least they played with some intent and stuffed it up through basic skills execution. The Reds have been like this for two years, and deteriorating since 2012. Injuries are an excuse, and one could say that Carraro making his 5 ever start in Super rugby playing in the hardest defensive position in the backline did better in terms of attack and defence than seasoned veterans in the Reds.

I acknowledged that the Reds were crap and have been crap. The reality is that the Tahs only looked any good at all because of how poorly the Reds played. If the Tahs were playing almost any other team they would have been thumped last night. But still, if you think that what they dished up isn't deserving of criticism then by all means enjoy what will be a fairly mediocre season for the Tahs.
They were rubbish against the Force and were ok against the Rebels then turned out a pretty rubbish performance last night that was made to look better by the absolutely diabolical team hey played against. For someone who has been banging on about Reds fans having their heads in the sand for as long as you have, it surprises me that you're all good with how your lot are traveling.

 

[Gnostic]

I acknowledged that the Reds were crap and have been crap. The reality is that the Tahs only looked any good at all because of how poorly the Reds played. If the Tahs were playing almost any other team they would have been thumped last night. But still, if you think that what they dished up isn't deserving of criticism then by all means enjoy what will be a fairly mediocre season for the Tahs.
They were rubbish against the Force and were ok against the Rebels then turned out a pretty rubbish performance last night that was made to look better by the absolutely diabolical team hey played against. For someone who has been banging on about Reds fans having their heads in the sand for as long as you have, it surprises me that you're all good with how your lot are traveling.

Go back and look at what I posted directly after the game. The main areas I stated cost the Tahs are handling and accuracy at the breakdown. I said they were very ordinary. That doesn't change what I said above though. They won easily because of how poor the Reds were. Indeed the Tahs looked too relaxed at times and too eager to push an advantage.

Give how critical I was of the Tahs in the Link, Hickey & Foley periods and "banged on about people's heads being in the sand" you'll have to excuse me if I have a chuckle at the inference I am unable to critique a side I directly support.

 

[Sully]

You don't think 30 rums would improve your insight to be on the same level as the venerable Biggsy?

If I drank thirty Rums I'd of tried to punch someone 20 rums ago.

 

[Scoey]

Go back and look at what I posted directly after the game. The main areas I stated cost the Tahs are handling and accuracy at the breakdown. I said they were very ordinary. That doesn't change what I said above though. They won easily because of how poor the Reds were. Indeed the Tahs looked too relaxed at times and too eager to push an advantage.

Give how critical I was of the Tahs in the Link, Hickey & Foley periods and "banged on about people's heads being in the sand" you'll have to excuse me if I have a chuckle at the inference I am unable to critique a side I directly support.

Chuckle to your hearts content, I wasn't inferring that you are unable, just that in the exchange we had (not including a post some 10 pages ago) that your (but mostly commenters in general) criticism was too focused on the Reds when the Tahs were pretty shit as well.
At the end of the day I don't particularly care in any case, I was simply pointing out something I had observed. If you see it differently so be it.

 

[RedsHappy]

I think both should go but when you make a change mid season only one person will ever get the chop.

.....and any new head coach worth his salt will want carte blanche freedom over the choice of all his support coaches, he will surely insist upon no 'forced inheritances'.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yes, oh yes. I could be wrong but at the game last night observing him from the get-go, I thought his confidence was in shreds.

JOC (James O'Connor) should have been developed as a 12, but never was. If not that, and it's likely too late in his career for that, he's a winger only.

He's surely not a natural 15 or 10, and he looks and plays there like a fish out of water.

The heart of the recent matter is that RG badly mis-planned his approach to a back up for QC (Quade Cooper). He recruited a green, young rookie for that role, possibly as he'd over-spent on the other 'stars' designed to re-boot the whole team into a dazzling 2015 success. And of equal consequence, players like Harris and Lucas were dispensed with.

Once that rookie inevitably failed in such a demanding, exposed role, panic stations were called and we've had endless experiments at 10, none of which have been close to equalling how Lucas would have sufficed if he'd not been jettisoned.

It's probably the most significant indictment of RG, that for the second time he has no plan B should Quade be injured. (Which unfortunately for Australian rugby is what has happened)

To do so once is a misfortune, to do so twice looks like carelessness.