Reds 2021

[Cancelled Account]

The Tom Lynagh and Taj Annan signings are exciting and needed. Bringing them into a professional environment at 17/18 yo is what has to happen. If they are developed along the same blueprint as Gordon, with the expectations and timelines clearly set then we will have a successful team with good depth. Yes, I’m filthy that Gordon has left and this may have been handled differently, I get the whole timing thing. Can we all move on from Gordon.
We have some young and exciting talent in or around the Reds camp. Tom, Taj, Mac, Kalani, Josh Flook, Vella, Zane, Dane, and it seems Isaac Henry. The Academy didn’t operate at the back end of this year and there are probably a few more names that have physically developed over the past 12 months. Thorn’s presence has had a positive impact, and we just need to keep this rolling.

 

[upthereds#!]

On the topic of Hunter, what do we do with our backline -- do we play Hunter / Petiai, or continue with Stewart / Petiai or Stewart Hunter?
Stewart has really been the main organiser of our defense and he has a really versatile skill set, allowing him to play 10, 12 and 15.
Hunter has looked very impressive at 12 for the Wallabies.
Petiai is one of the biggest game breakers in World Rugby.
Without Vunivalu we could have moved Petaia out to the wing, but we'll have Vunivalu and Daugunu on the wings.

What do the Reds do?

Start with the big guns, then have the extra play makers and kicking options come off the bench to help seal the deal or change the structure of attack if necessary

9. Mcdermott 10. JOC (James O'Connor) 12. Paisami 13. Petaia 14. Vunivalu 15. Campbell

21. Malolua 22. Stewart 23. Hegarty

(Though it'll probably be 22. Hegarty & 23. CFS if resigned) Hegarty can change the shape at 10 or 15 with JOC (James O'Connor) moving to 12 or Campbell moving to wing.

 

[dru]

Start with the big guns, then have the extra play makers and kicking options come off the bench to help seal the deal or change the structure of attack if necessary

9. Mcdermott 10. JOC (James O'Connor) 12. Paisami 13. Petaia 14. Vunivalu 15. Campbell

21. Malolua 22. Stewart 23. Hegarty

(Though it'll probably be 22. Hegarty & 23. CFS if resigned) Hegarty can change the shape at 10 or 15 with JOC (James O'Connor) moving to 12 or Campbell moving to wing.

I mostly agree with this. Stewart covers more from the bench than anyone else and I don’t think is better than Jock at 15.

The only thing is, no matter how good he has gotten, JOC (James O'Connor) is hardly an archetypal 10. Backlines work much better with a (defending) distributor outside him. On that narrow test Stewart is better than Paisami.

BTW the angst over youngsters possibly into the 10 development slot is amusing. It was painful losing the guys we did and just as pleasing to see the slots filled.

 

[Cancelled Account]

Mostly agree but I do think we haven’t seen the best of Stewart yet. His confidence at 12 will have helped with slotting into flyhalf. He has the playmaking abilities he just was inconsistent and possibly nervous when first placed there a couple of years ago.

 

[dru]

One thing we have seen from Thorn is an ability to bring through young players. As the rugby level increases he has also shown fabulous ability to bring through second rowers and loose forwards. Either Thorn and/or Lillycrap have been sublime in urgently plugging g gaps in the front row and accelerating development.

It is frankly impressive.

I think the same, mostly, in the backline with impressive development demonstrated by the system and coaches for 9, 12, 13, 11/14.

BUT so far it as been a dog’s breakfast at 10 and I’m not sure 15 is particularly far behind. I doubt 10 was the slot they had in mind for JOC (James O'Connor) but need’s be and he grabbed it with both hands. Lucky break that.

So I understand concerns fans have at LHP, finishing THP and the row. Certainly you can have all the development skills in the world but this means squat if the raw talent/physical shape players are not available. If they are though we can build and quickly.

At the end of the day it wasn’t losing Rodda that hurt, well it did but it was just a flesh wound. Losing the development Flyhalves was real in terms of future impact. Bloody glad JOC (James O'Connor) wants on for the long haul.

And I’m chuffed to see FH development slots being filled. It’s an early Xmas gift.

 

[Zero_Cool]

I agree with @Roberts, towards the end of Super Rugby AU I was thinking 'gee I wouldn't hate seeing Stewart given another run at 10' He has looked to have really gained that confidence you need to play flyhalf. He's done a good job at NRC and the levels below that (u20's particularly he was so composed). If he ever goes back to flyhalf he's got all the tools to be a test flyhalf, if he can put it together. Should O'Connor miss any games due to injury Stewart would probably be the first guy I'd look at there; especially before I trot out the 'white bread' Hegarty.

Ultimately, I feel like Stewart is that special sauce that is the worse player but will do more for the team. He's going to help us access our outside backs more as well as really organise our defense -- in addition to being a very good defender himself. I feel like Hegarty might actually be the one to miss out. CFS has been very good off the bench and filling in wherever we need him. Hegarty has been very plain and suffers from the odd Rob Simmons (dumb unforced error) every so often.

 

[RugbyReg]

[quote="Roberts Rugby, post: 1179559, member: 75729"

EDIT: The article with Genia shouldn’t be claimed as Reds organised. This was organised between Genia and McDermott outside of the Reds.[/quote]

not true, as per the article:

Currently in Brisbane indefinitely amid the coronavirus pandemic, the 32-year-old answered a call from Reds attack coach Jim McKay last month, kicking off a chain of events that saw one of Queensland's favourite sons linking up with one of its newest talents.

"He (McKay) messaged me a couple of days later, and said Tate would like to catch up and then we had a coffee two weeks after that."

 

[The Phoenix]

You want to bench the wallaby 12. Crazy.

If Hamish earns his 12 sport, then I'd look at shifting Pasiamis to 13, and then Petaia to wing for a short period. That'll teach him to pass to his wingers.

Long-term Petaia to 13, and Paisami to 12. PLEASE!

The issue is whether the Wallaby 12 is better than the Reds 12, and I don't think he is.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

I thought Paisami's ball handling ability really improved this season. Having said that , he wasn't exactly coming off a high base here. And prior comments on his tendency to gamble a bit off the line , defensively , is fair enough. However , this is , and will be easily fixed. He has shown an impressive ability to develop as a comparative late bloomer in what has been a very challenging season all round for all players.

I don't really think it has to be a binary choice of Paisami or Stewart. I think there is room for both with Petaia in a 12/13/15 "triangle" so to speak. I am interested in the idea of playing Petaia back in defense with Stewart and Paisami upfront and then dropping Stewart back in attack and rolling with the lines and improving ball handling ability that Paisami has flashed this year and then with the threat that Paisami gives you upfront - capitalising on that with Petaia and our wings

Jock as our bench maverick

 

[dru]

I agree with @Roberts, towards the end of Super Rugby AU I was thinking 'gee I wouldn't hate seeing Stewart given another run at 10'.

There is a morphing of the role in the modern 10. Required to defend the channel and to do this with vigour. Ready to work in traffic, flat, in the thick of things and take contact (preferably with an offload). Stewart could do this for sure.

The way the Reds play Stewart has often been first receiver anyway, just like To'omua has been for the WBs.

This sort of role in a FH inevitably means the distribution and game play can not be a sole responsibility of the 10. Kiwis have been playing the "second fly" for decades, while a 12 based on this thinking is fine ideally the 12 also needs enough of the "big bopper" physique to also hit hard. [Can Paisami develop into this? Probably.]

For goodness sake though, let's NOT put Stewart to 10 with a Kerevi style 12 outside. Would not be doing him justice at all.

 

[PhilClinton]

If your name is Jock Campbell, you're geering yourself up for a big pre-season or you might be spending quite a bit of time playing for the Red Heavies (and they need him badly) next year. In a team stacked with backline options, a mediocre player who covers wing/fullback isn't looking like a great option.

I think we will see Petaia, Hergarty, Vunivalu and Campbell given a crack at the 15 spot in trial games.

And if Jock doesn't lock down that 15 spot, I think he finds himself out of the 23.

 

[Cancelled Account]

[quote="Roberts Rugby, post: 1179559, member: 75729"

EDIT: The article with Genia shouldn’t be claimed as Reds organised. This was organised between Genia and McDermott outside of the Reds.

not true, as per the article:

Currently in Brisbane indefinitely amid the coronavirus pandemic, the 32-year-old answered a call from Reds attack coach Jim McKay last month, kicking off a chain of events that saw one of Queensland's favourite sons linking up with one of its newest talents.

"He (McKay) messaged me a couple of days later, and said Tate would like to catch up and then we had a coffee two weeks after that."[/quote]


Thanks Reg. Not what I was told and more than happy to be corrected on this. Good on McKay

 

[Adam84]

12 months ago Hunter Paisami wasn’t even contracted and Wilson & McReight hadn’t even debuted.
A lot can happen in one season of rugby. Only takes one or two injuries and then someone else puts their hand up for recognition.

Reds have a good starting XV, be interesting to see who the next Wilson/McReight/Paisami might be.

 

[Braveheart81]

Paisami's stock has risen massively over the test season. His defence in particular has become far better. He's no longer making the errors he was at Super Rugby level this year where he was overemphasising the big hit but missing tackles.

Whilst Thorn will make his own decisions I certainly think he's working with a player who is a chunk better than when he finished Super Rugby in September.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Paisami's stock has risen massively over the test season. His defence in particular has become far better. He's no longer making the errors he was at Super Rugby level this year where he was overemphasising the big hit but missing tackles.

Whilst Thorn will make his own decisions I certainly think he's working with a player who is a chunk better than when he finished Super Rugby in September.

I've commented on this before but he is playing better for the Wallabies than he was for Wests last year. Completely remarkable.

 

[The Phoenix]

Yeah, I tend to think Stewart is the better overall fit. Obviously some will say how come Jordie/Hunter can start for the Wallabies but not for the Reds. But I think overall Stewart does a really good job organising our defense and is a better kicker and distributor.
But it's the back row from this year all over again! This time only 2 spots with 3 options.

And you have to look at how many times this year a beautifully timed Stewart pass put the outside runners into gaps. Just because he's not a bash'em up number 12 doesn't mean he's not a threat. The Reds backline was more dangerous this year with Stewart at 12 than it was when Kerevi was there, IMHO.

 

[dru]

And you have to look at how many times this year a beautifully timed Stewart pass put the outside runners into gaps. Just because he's not a bash'em up number 12 doesn't mean he's not a threat. The Reds backline was more dangerous this year with Stewart at 12 than it was when Kerevi was there, IMHO.

Yep. The non-Reds WB fans see Paisami as a slam dunk to Red 12 but they clearly have not seen what we have seen with Stewart. Not to mention that Thorn is unlikely to simply go “Oh yeah, Rennie put him there - done.”

Huge kudos to Paisami, but he has work to do back home in Brisbane. Which is a good thing that he should relish. I have firm confidence that Stewart will.

BTW plenty seem ready to have Jock backpedal. I feel the same about him and anyone wanting 15 will have a double battle. Let’s not forget the structure that Hegarty gives our game.

Next year is going to be interesting. Which is hardly unusual, but what IS unusual is that it is going to be interesting in a really, really good way.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yep. The non-Reds WB fans see Paisami as a slam dunk to Red 12 but they clearly have not seen what we have seen with Stewart. Not to mention that Thorn is unlikely to simply go “Oh yeah, Rennie put him there - done.”

Given there were only two Australian games each week, I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that most people commenting watched the overwhelming majority of Reds games in Super Rugby AU.

The Reds backline was more dangerous this year with Stewart at 12 than it was when Kerevi was there, IMHO.

Hard to compare the two seasons. In 2019 you played Stewart, Hegarty, Lucas and McGahan at 10 and in 2020 you consistently had JOC (James O'Connor) there. None of them were particularly good. This year JOC (James O'Connor) has consistently played there and from those performances was first choice as the Wallabies starting 10.

I reckon the Reds backline as a whole was much better in 2020. Stewart did a great job at 12, particularly in defence where he was rock solid.

 

[Ignoto]

I've commented on this before but he is playing better for the Wallabies than he was for Wests last year. Completely remarkable.

Hopefully he doesn't become the Aussie Ma Nonu!

 

[Braveheart81]

Hopefully he doesn't become the Aussie Ma Nonu!

A guy who played 100 tests and won two RWCs but was notoriously slow getting going in Super Rugby?

Look, I think I speak for everyone here that the Reds need to take one for the team if Hunter Paisami has that much potential.