Reds 2021

[PhilClinton]

So what happens with Hamish Stewart next year? Paisami and Petaia would have to be the midfield combo. Does he go back to 15 or provide depth at 10 for JOC (James O'Connor)

JOC (James O'Connor) has looked best IMO playing with Stewart and To'omua this year. Both very different to Paisami. But I must say, Paisami seems to be growing his skill set in Wallabies camp.

As mentioned above Thorn will go is own way to an extent, If I’m honest I wouldn’t mind Paisami to the bench. He’s still a young bloke, learning how to best utilise his talents and looks to cover 12 and 13 easily. The modern game certainly views the bench players more as finishers than subs (if used correctly) and I can see a fresh Paisami causing some trouble with his hard running and torpedo tackling technique in the back end of games.

 

[Viking]

You want to bench the wallaby 12. Crazy.

If Hamish earns his 12 sport, then I'd look at shifting Pasiamis to 13, and then Petaia to wing for a short period. That'll teach him to pass to his wingers.

Long-term Petaia to 13, and Paisami to 12. PLEASE!

 

[Adam84]

How about:

9. McDermott
10. JOC (James O'Connor)
11. Daugunu
12. Stewart
13. Paisami
14. Vunivalu
15. Petaia

 

[Adam84]

Interesting comments about JOC (James O'Connor), wonder if they’ve made a point of saying that based on other fly-half’s deciding to leave the Reds.

The Reds plan to have one of Lynagh or fellow teen Taj Annan – who has also signed until the end of 2023 – take the reins at No.10 when James O'Connor decides to move on.

"We're signing him for a reason," Cordingley said. "We think he's capable of being able to deliver for the Reds and hopefully for the Wallabies down the track.

"We made it really clear – which was good – that we want James O'Connor to stay through to the next World Cup. But that doesn't stop Tom from putting his hand up.

"He's keen to work in the same squad as James, learn from James and, at the appropriate time, he will get a crack."
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...n-lynagh-signs-with-reds-20201124-p56hhs.html

 

[Cancelled Account]

How about:

9. McDermott
10. JOC (James O'Connor)
11. Daugunu
12. Stewart
13. Paisami
14. Vunivalu
15. Petaia

Oh yeah. Let’s get Petaia to full back for a couple of games. I just have a question mark over his accuracy with long range kicking.

 

[Cancelled Account]

Interesting comments about JOC (James O'Connor), wonder if they’ve made a point of saying that based on other fly-half’s deciding to leave the Reds.

The more I read about this signing the more I realise the hype is to counteract the fuck up with Lucas and Gordon, and even a slight dig at both players. The comments from Cordingley are going to leave egg on his face one way or another with either JOC (James O'Connor) not re-signing or Tom Lynagh not stacking up to the talk. Just to be a pessimist, Tom’s height and weight for a 17 yo playing flyhalf in today’s style of game is my first concern. A couple of highlight videos showing some good foot work doesn’t make him a world beater. How is he in defence? Anyway, happy to be proven wrong and we end up with a tier one player.
Not having JOC (James O'Connor) signed for a longer term is a bit of cart before the horse. Wasn’t the reason for Gordon leaving that JOC (James O'Connor) was staying on for 3 more years? That was a few months ago and still JOC (James O'Connor) hasn’t signed. What’s the hold up?

 

[PhilClinton]

You want to bench the wallaby 12. Crazy.

If Hamish earns his 12 sport, then I'd look at shifting Pasiamis to 13, and then Petaia to wing for a short period. That'll teach him to pass to his wingers.

Long-term Petaia to 13, and Paisami to 12. PLEASE!

Paisami has had one season of super rugby and if you asked anyone he was no chance of the wallabies this year. He’s playing well but also is there by almost default with To'omua injured.

Is it really so crazy to think he could fill other roles for a team and still be the Wallaby 12?

 

[TSR]

You may be proven to be right RR - it may all end badly, but I think you’re being unfair at this time.

O’Connor is signed until the end of 2023. It is not in any way unusual that his extension contract hasn’t been sorted at this stage. Give the disruption if COVID I’d be surprised if it had.

I think both Gordon & Lucas were a bit unlucky. Both thought there was an opportunity in the Reds number 10 jersey. I don’t know that anyone expected up front that is where JOC (James O'Connor) would end up, but he has, he’s made a good fist of it and it seems he has announced his intention to stay. Once that happened both players values at the Reds slipped slightly. I’m sure the Reds would have still loved to have kept them both - but they both clearly want to compete for starting spots now and their path is blocked or at least obstructed. It would have been great for Gordon to stay, do a year as the apprentice and then fight for his spot - but it is understandable that he took a bigger offer.

List management is a tough gig and I think it is even harder in an environment like the Reds were you are producing the talent not just for yourself but for others to cherry pick. For a long period the Reds did a terrible job - and I’m not arguing they shouldn’t be open to scrutiny - but this appears to me to be sound succession planning with the current squad having both short term contingency planning and long term succession addressed.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

Don’t discount Taj Annan as a play making option into a window of 3 years plus - which is probably the most realistic window to see for Tom Lynagh pan out as a possibility. And yes , Annan absolutely has potential as a 10 even though 12 and 15 are also realistic spots

Also I am not sure where the fuck ups with Lucas and Gordon were as Roberts Rugby claim. To me , Lucas was / is a bench spark utility sort - good to have as a key role player to set loose on tiring defenses down the stretch , and clearly , in his ultimate choice he didn’t fit the cultural blueprint of Thornball. I wouldn’t cry a river about it. In terms of the Gordon thing I wouldn’t lose any sleep on that either. I understand there are diehard believers on these here forums but right or wrong , and irrespective of what any of us opine - there are clear reasons why what happened - happened and why those within Thornball were cool to be without the forward options . If they are as you suggest “having a dig” and thereby making it personal then they need to be careful about this so that it doesn’t come back and bite them on the ass. Personally - I don’t think it will. Maybe you got to trust the fact that these guys have a standard and a blue print - both in terms of physical talent / ability and in mental talent and ability that syncs with a standard for all that they insist on. And I’m all for the commitment to that standard in Thornball.

We have two good prospects to fill the future space in Lynagh and Annan and whatever else presents itself over the next couple of years.

The Lucas and Gordon “fuck ups” had zero impact on our season this year and will have zero impact on our prospective success over the next 5 years

We have more than enough through the play making / skill positions and the back row and are building nicely.

I’m more concerned about the tight positions - and especially having so many junior and unproven (and imo) completely over hyped young Props and being pretty thin at the 2 , 4 and 5 spots

 

[Cancelled Account]

You may be proven to be right RR - it may all end badly, but I think you’re being unfair at this time.

O’Connor is signed until the end of 2023. It is not in any way unusual that his extension contract hasn’t been sorted at this stage. Give the disruption if COVID I’d be surprised if it had.

I think both Gordon & Lucas were a bit unlucky. Both thought there was an opportunity in the Reds number 10 jersey. I don’t know that anyone expected up front that is where JOC (James O'Connor) would end up, but he has, he’s made a good fist of it and it seems he has announced his intention to stay. Once that happened both players values at the Reds slipped slightly. I’m sure the Reds would have still loved to have kept them both - but they both clearly want to compete for starting spots now and their path is blocked or at least obstructed. It would have been great for Gordon to stay, do a year as the apprentice and then fight for his spot - but it is understandable that he took a bigger offer.

List management is a tough gig and I think it is even harder in an environment like the Reds were you are producing the talent not just for yourself but for others to cherry pick. For a long period the Reds did a terrible job - and I’m not arguing they shouldn’t be open to scrutiny - but this appears to me to be sound succession planning with the current squad having both short term contingency planning and long term succession addressed.

TSR, it’s been ‘smoke and mirrors’ for a long time at the Reds and with one common denominator. The recent evidence of this is the media releases around JOC (James O'Connor) re-signing over the last 2 days. Tell the people the truth, just as you have right now, and don’t tell journalists and the players half the story.
Queensland does produce some of the best talent, but we all know retention is the key and quite frankly list management performance can be determined by the outcomes. Queensland obviously doesn’t do this well.
I’ve been around this game long enough internationally and locally to know what a professional outfit looks like, and by Christ Queensland needs to find a new strategy and professional people to make this happen. You are probably sensing a love hate relationship! Take a leaf out of the Brumbies and Rebels book. Social media posts wishing their departing players ‘all the best’, and seeing former players return to training to assist the coaches. Now that’s a bloody good culture. All Cordingley does is writes off the departing players in the media. That is shit.
Now tell me ‘why I’m being unfair’?

 

[Rebel man]

JOC (James O'Connor) has looked best IMO playing with Stewart and To'omua this year. Both very different to Paisami. But I must say, Paisami seems to be growing his skill set in Wallabies camp.

As mentioned above Thorn will go is own way to an extent, If I’m honest I wouldn’t mind Paisami to the bench. He’s still a young bloke, learning how to best utilise his talents and looks to cover 12 and 13 easily. The modern game certainly views the bench players more as finishers than subs (if used correctly) and I can see a fresh Paisami causing some trouble with his hard running and torpedo tackling technique in the back end of games.

Playing off the bench won’t be good for his development

 

[Rebel man]

Paisami has had one season of super rugby and if you asked anyone he was no chance of the wallabies this year. He’s playing well but also is there by almost default with To'omua injured.

Is it really so crazy to think he could fill other roles for a team and still be the Wallaby 12?

See Stewart as the more natural to move back to 15 then look something like
McDermott
JOC (James O'Connor)
Vunivalu
Paisami
Petaia
Daugunu
Stewart

 

[Dean Moriarty]

See Stewart as the more natural to move back to 15 then look something like
McDermott
JOC (James O'Connor)
Vunivalu
Paisami
Petaia
Daugunu
Stewart

Yeah don’t mind that. It’s well balanced and it allows you to bring Jock Campbell off the bench as a circuit breaker with Hegarty and CFS in the back up spots

I would be more inclined to play Stewart up in the mid field defense off set piece and leave Petaia back as a counter attack threat , but in attacking sets leave as you have it pegged (above)

 

[Rebel man]

Yeah don’t mind that. It’s well balanced and it allows you to bring Jock Campbell off the bench as a circuit breaker with Hegarty and CFS in the back up spots

I would be more inclined to play Stewart up in the mid field defense off set piece and leave Petaia back as a counter attack threat , but in attacking sets leave as you have it pegged (above)

I forgot about Campbell the reds are putting together a seriously good side

 

[The Nomad]

When you think about it , Piasami only got his chance this year with the Reds after Petaia’s injury .

His rise from where he was at the start of the season when Thorn was nominating him as a player to watch , to the starting #12 for the Wallabies has been phenomenal. Yes , again , he did get his Wallaby start as a result of another injury , but he has made a great fist of it and seems to be getting better with every game .

How good can he get should be the question.

He is only 22 and seems to keep learning , why bench him ?

 

[PhilClinton]

Benching Paisami may not be the answer, but for what it's worth I wouldn't mind seeing his impact fresh late in games.

For me, the Reds have four key high energy players - Tupou, Wilson, McReight and Paisami. I haven't forgotten about Petaia - for me he's more than just a high energy player, he's a key component of the backline and fills a different role to the other blokes, when he's not over playing his hand.

There is daylight between Tupou and Wilson and the next best players at their positions - they are non-negotiable starters and will provide impact from the get go. I would also expect them to play 80mins at Super Rugby level.

McReight and Paisami, both great players but there is a lot of competition around those spots and you can justify other guys starting ahead of them. I think it would be wise to experiment with both those guys coming from the bench for the last 35mins of the game. High impact footballers who are likely going to be stronger than their opposition bench players. It could make a serious difference.

I don't have all the answers obviously but with so much talent in the backline especially, you need to try different things and I don't think it diminishes Paisami's role if he comes on and breaks open a game for us at the back end.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

Benching Paisami may not be the answer, but for what it's worth I wouldn't mind seeing his impact fresh late in games.

For me, the Reds have four key high energy players - Tupou, Wilson, McReight and Paisami. I haven't forgotten about Petaia - for me he's more than just a high energy player, he's a key component of the backline and fills a different role to the other blokes, when he's not over playing his hand.

There is daylight between Tupou and Wilson and the next best players at their positions - they are non-negotiable starters and will provide impact from the get go. I would also expect them to play 80mins at Super Rugby level.

McReight and Paisami, both great players but there is a lot of competition around those spots and you can justify other guys starting ahead of them. I think it would be wise to experiment with both those guys coming from the bench for the last 35mins of the game. High impact footballers who are likely going to be stronger than their opposition bench players. It could make a serious difference.

I don't have all the answers obviously but with so much talent in the backline especially, you need to try different things and I don't think it diminishes Paisami's role if he comes on and breaks open a game for us at the back end.

His better value , IMO , is having him as a dual threat in the centre with Petaia - which should make it a bit easier for Petaia and the wings. Stewart just isn’t the same threat , and , you don’t lose anything in the defensive punch with Paisami.

Let Jock and his broken field skills beat up on other team’s tiring starters or bench guys down the stretch

 

[PhilClinton]

His better value , IMO , is having him as a dual threat in the centre with Petaia - which should make it a bit easier for Petaia and the wings. Stewart just isn’t the same threat , and , you don’t lose anything in the defensive punch with Paisami.

Let Jock and his broken field skills beat up on other team’s tiring starters or bench guys down the stretch

Fair points, but I also don't believe Paisami's 'defensive punch' is a better alternative to Stewart's genuine tackling ability. In fact I think it was Paisami's tendency to rush out of the line and miss tackles that was his biggest detractor during the Super Rugby season.

We are all entitled to our opinions though and it is generating some good discussion, it's good to see the Reds do have genuine options for next year.

 

[Ignoto]

Social media posts wishing their departing players ‘all the best’, and seeing former players return to training to assist the coaches. Now that’s a bloody good culture. All Cordingley does is writes off the departing players in the media. That is shit.
Now tell me ‘why I’m being unfair’?

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2020/04/13/will-genia-tate-mcdermott-training

The Reds social media has also been outstanding throughout the year and I didn't realise Cordingley has the log in details for their Facebook or IG accounts.

So, whatever vendetta you have against Sam, it's obviously wrong about the 'culture' and the 'social media' usage.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

Little Lynagh may well have the chops and it is pretty hard to argue against England’s pathway production over the last several years . So he is a genuine prospect. But the devil’s advocate cynic in me also suggests there is a bums on seats / eyes on screen PR silver lining around “young Prince”

What also raised a Jack Nicholson eyebrow was that he was signed off an 8m highlight reel without any detailed first hand DD.

Anyway ....play on