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Reds 2018

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Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
I look at this in a holistic sense given the state of Australian Rugby. Hoarding young talent doesn't do a damn thing to improve things. My bitch isn't with the Reds as they re recruiting within the scope afforded to them. My bitch is with the ARU and the pathetic performance they have shown in managing the talent pool. Player distribution is one biggest issues we have in our game.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
The interesting dynamic here is that there are a couple of very handy locks in the QLD Schoolboys team this year.

One, Harry Wilson, played Oz Schoolboys last year and his one of the most talented school sportsman going around. Very skillful and may end up a 6 in the real stuff.

The other is Trevor Hosea who is actually already contracted to the Rebels.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
I look at this in a holistic sense given the state of Australian Rugby. Hoarding young talent doesn't do a damn thing to improve things. My bitch isn't with the Reds as they re recruiting within the scope afforded to them. My bitch is with the ARU and the pathetic performance they have shown in managing the talent pool. Player distribution is one biggest issues we have in our game.

I have some sympathy for your approach, but these are just kids. Let's keep them living at home with friends and family around for a bit.

They can be uprooted to another city soon enough.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
It's very unbalanced. If two of Douglas, Tui & Rodda are injured then both Hockings & Blythe may be required in the match 23. And this ignores the potential for one or both of Tui & Rodda to suffer 'second year syndrom'. Unless we plan to pick up another 'journeyman' type lock on a low value contract to step up in need (but then we have 6 locks under contract).
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
Any team losing two of their three primary locks is going to end up unbalanced.

We need S&C that does better than this.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
Any team losing two of their three primary locks is going to end up unbalanced.

We need S&C that does better than this.
We didn't this year because we had two senior locks (Simmons & Douglas), 1 experienced backup (Neville) & 2 promising rookies. As it turned out the rookies outperformed and were able to win starting births. Next year we have 1 'senior' lock & 4 rookies.

They may well handle it - but it is still a step down & much riskier approach to squad management.
 

SamoanNo8

Jimmy Flynn (14)
I'd hate to be a Premier Grade lock who has slogged it out for years in men's rugby and to be overlooked by 2 teenagers who haven't even played Premier Grade in their lives. How can we possibly be signing these 2 young locks without having even seen them tested at opens rugby level? No doubt, they have shown promise at U20s level - I'm not denying that. But U20s level is a completely different ball game to seniors rugby. The recent article written by rugbynews.net.au hits the nail on the head.

On a separate note, I hope that Sam Greene during his return to Brisbane has been in talks with the Reds regarding a potential return to Ballymore. I would like to think that his time in Japan has made him a better player, and at this point in time is a better option than Stewart.
 

Moonrat

Frank Nicholson (4)
I hope they are signed on development contracts or on u20 contracts. Same with Hewat who has another year of u20...Teenagers should not be taking spots in the Top Senior squad. Defeats the purpose of a pathway.


I agree totally. Hewats days of U20s are over.
 

Moonrat

Frank Nicholson (4)
are they? he played Oz schoolboys in 2016 so should have 2017 and 18 in 20


Like many players who schools/ parents keep back to assist with making rep honours.

Truly have to look through the leaf's in many cases to see the wood. Many of the school boy "super stars" are fully developed men running around against boys. i.e. Hewat at 18 playing for Nudgee would have played against a 15 year old Fraser McReight for BGS.

Wilson and Hosea mentioned above by Reg are the same age as Fenner, Lucas and McReight playing brisbane premier grade.
 

upthereds#!

Peter Johnson (47)
Hope Hewat (who is hugely similar) offers more then Schatz, Quirk, Browning etc in the long run.....Reds seem to be the heroes of signing U20 190cm 105kg utility backrowers .

These guys all were solid super rugby players and were great clubmen, but all signed on as that years u20 stars that never went on to be senior stars.

The importance of following a pathway is IMO also so they don't get a big head in their early years signed as a 'Star'...at 18..., touted as future wallabies etc etc, then when they don't become the starting no.8 and wallabies captain by age 22 they aren't packing up their kit and bailing, or wondering why they aren't pulling in the big $


Calling this the " Reps 2 Reds " Pathway. Just making it up as I go....

Step 1 - Play Rep for Qld and Aus Schoolboys.

If you are going to pick from a cohort 1 year at a time, you need to pick the best in the country, not the best in the state to progress to step 2

Step 2 - 2 Year U20 contract

Play for QLD u20 and try to make Aus Schoolboys. If you are going to pick youngsters from this 30 strong cohort each year to offer a Professional Development contract, they need to be among the best in the Country.

Those who miss out on a 2 year contract after SB, can still earn a 1 year contract if they are playing well for 1 year in Prem Grade. (eg. Schatz captained Prems 1st year out of school I think) The door isn't shut!

Step 3 - 1 Year Professional Development Contract.
A bridging course to ensure your teenage stars are supported in their transition to Senior Rugby. Train with Senior Squad Bodies are physically maturing as they hit 20yrs+. Need to be making statements in Prem Grade and NRC opportunities.

This band also available for Premier players who have earnt NRC opportunities off their own bat and performed strongly in their performances outside of the Reps 2 Reds Pathway. Yay for grizzled club veterans!

Step 4 - Senior Professional Contract
You've made it to the big boys! Depending on salary cap and performance expectations, timelines offered are on 1 - 3 years. If a player performs poorly in their 1st year, they should expect to be either only offered 1 year extensions or bumped back to a professional development contract to make room for a graduating step 3 player.



We haven't IMO had a teenage player that has actually deserved a fulltime professional contract as a teenagers since Pocock/Beale/JOC (James O'Connor). They actually dominated as teenagers and became vital wallaby cogs at a verrrrry young age. At u20 level, they were amongst the WORLDS best, not just Australias, let alone a states.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
To be fair, I though Browning seemed to show a fair bit more upside in his last season in the Reds. But he was let go/forced out (I don't know which) by the recruitment/retention of Higgers/Tui/Smith/Houston et al.

You could argue that Browning was coming through at about the rate that he should have.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I'd hate to be a Premier Grade lock who has slogged it out for years in men's rugby and to be overlooked by 2 teenagers who haven't even played Premier Grade in their lives. How can we possibly be signing these 2 young locks without having even seen them tested at opens rugby level? No doubt, they have shown promise at U20s level - I'm not denying that. But U20s level is a completely different ball game to seniors rugby. The recent article written by rugbynews.net.au hits the nail on the head.

On a separate note, I hope that Sam Greene during his return to Brisbane has been in talks with the Reds regarding a potential return to Ballymore. I would like to think that his time in Japan has made him a better player, and at this point in time is a better option than Stewart.

I don't disagree, like Rodda and Tui I assumed these guys as on development contracts initially..

On the QPR, which 200cm locks would you suggest are up to super rugby standard?
 

Getwithme

Cyril Towers (30)
I don't disagree, like Rodda and Tui I assumed these guys as on development contracts initially..

On the QPR, which 200cm locks would you suggest are up to super rugby standard?

You don't have to be 200cm's tall to be a good super rugby lock...
 
T

TOCC

Guest
You don't have to be 200cm's tall to be a good super rugby lock.

No you don't but It certainly helps.. a Super Rugby team can probably carry one lock who is less then 200cm, but at least one of the starting locks needs to be 200cm..
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
No you don't but It certainly helps.. a Super Rugby team can probably carry one lock who is less then 200cm, but at least one of the starting locks needs to be 200cm..

I'm not at all comfortable with Super locks being under 200cm. Guys like Itoje are pretty rare and generally we are looking at someone who is really targeting #6 and using#4 as a skills build in getting there.
 
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