Reds 2018

[amirite]

I just don't get the logic of club footy is better for development of future professionals than pathway programs.

Right now most starter level Under 20s players get 4 Super 20s games (plus 3 or so trials), an Under 20 WC + Oceania Championship (totalling in 6ish games), a few club footy games (let's say 5+), some NRC game time, and experience elite level coaching in the NRC, Super 20s, and probably even Super Rugby environment. That's 25ish games, which is the correct number.

Why do people think a year of club level coaching and games is preferable? Prem coaches are excellent coaches, but you don't have the time to go into details or really address rugby on a skills level.

Our way of developing players in that Sub 23yo window is literally the best it's ever been and I'm confident for all the flaws in Australia rugby that it'll deliver some gems.

 

[gel]

Because playing against bigger and waaaaaay more experienced, and crusty old farts teaches you how to rely on your brain instead of on your physical superiority.

Plus it gives exposure to a greater range of play styles.

Plus 28 yr old rugby players have muscles and bones made of concrete under their fat. U20s haven't been schnitzellled yet.

 

[Happy to Chat]

I just don't get the logic of club footy is better for development of future professionals than pathway programs.

Right now most starter level Under 20s players get 4 Super 20s games (plus 3 or so trials), an Under 20 WC + Oceania Championship (totalling in 6ish games), a few club footy games (let's say 5+), some NRC game time, and experience elite level coaching in the NRC, Super 20s, and probably even Super Rugby environment. That's 25ish games, which is the correct number.

Why do people think a year of club level coaching and games is preferable? Prem coaches are excellent coaches, but you don't have the time to go into details or really address rugby on a skills level.

Our way of developing players in that Sub 23yo window is literally the best it's ever been and I'm confident for all the flaws in Australia rugby that it'll deliver some gems.

You need a pathway and a program to develop the up and coming players. 2 days a week at club footy is not going develop them to the required level.


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[amirite]

Because playing against bigger and waaaaaay more experienced, and crusty old farts teaches you how to rely on your brain instead of on your physical superiority.

Plus it gives exposure to a greater range of play styles.

Plus 28 yr old rugby players have muscles and bones made of concrete under their fat. U20s haven't been schnitzellled yet.

I agree that has it's value, but most of the uninjured U20s players get to do that anyway. Is 25 games of it really better than a few games against those blokes, while you mostly play games with a higher pace and standard of skill execution?

Plus, I'd say they get more from being hit by the elite 28 years old at Super training that the schnitzellised ones in club footy.

You need a pathway and a program to develop the up and coming players. 2 days a week at club footy is not going develop them to the required level.

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Agreed. I'm not saying club footy doesn't have it's value, just the idea it's the key piece in driving player development is wrong.

 

[Ignoto]

Plus 28 yr old rugby players have muscles and bones made of concrete under their fat. U20s haven't been schnitzellled yet.

Wow, wow, wow. Those 28 year olds are just conditioning themselves for the dad bod!

 

[Scrubber2050]

After a shit year (for many reasons) Stiles is safe for 2018 - no question and personally I agree with that.

Both Assistants have been poor IMO. They both should get the bullet.

It was always risky having a new HC with 2 brand new Assistants. It failed !

Stiles needs the support of some experienced chaps.

On another note Magnay has done fuck all in Super rugby and him going OS won't help his play. Reckon he will regress. It just shows the mentality of some young players who are not prepared to dig in before getting big bucks.

 

[gel]

Agreed. I'm not saying club footy doesn't have it's value, just the idea it's the key piece in driving player development is wrong.

I actually do think that playing regular rugby in a fixed team against a wider range of players of varying levels of skill, age and size is more beneficial than a couple of matches against the same group of guys, or just hovering around at super rugby training and not playing many matches. the reason I think this is because it provides the instincts and experience required to develop as a natural footballer, rather than a non thinking athlete/robot that executes perfect training drills, but has little to no instincts for the game.

I am not saying that the pathways program doesn't have its place, but it just appears to me to be the primary source of rugby for these guys instead of of it just being the representative icing on their rugby cake.

If a kid is good enough to play regular super rugby, then he should be playing super rugby (if the team needs it). If the player is good enough to be in the U20s programme, but not quite up to super rugby yet, then I think its fantastic that they are exposed to the elite training, but still feel that their primary rugby fix needs to be full contact matches as much as is healthy and possible - and that is senior premier rugby.

 

[Happy to Chat]

I actually do think that playing regular rugby in a fixed team against a wider range of players of varying levels of skill, age and size is more beneficial than a couple of matches against the same group of guys, or just hovering around at super rugby training and not playing many matches. the reason I think this is because it provides the instincts and experience required to develop as a natural footballer, rather than a non thinking athlete/robot that executes perfect training drills, but has little to no instincts for the game.

I am not saying that the pathways program doesn't have its place, but it just appears to me to be the primary source of rugby for these guys instead of of it just being the representative icing on their rugby cake.

If a kid is good enough to play regular super rugby, then he should be playing super rugby (if the team needs it). If the player is good enough to be in the U20s programme, but not quite up to super rugby yet, then I think its fantastic that they are exposed to the elite training, but still feel that their primary rugby fix needs to be full contact matches as much as is healthy and possible - and that is senior premier rugby.

I absolutely agree, they need to train in a professional environment and play club rugby (this being the development pathway) until such time as they are ready to play Super Rugby. Not sit on the bench as an aspirant young Super Rugby player.

 

[amirite]

I actually do think that playing regular rugby in a fixed team against a wider range of players of varying levels of skill, age and size is more beneficial than a couple of matches against the same group of guys, or just hovering around at super rugby training and not playing many matches. the reason I think this is because it provides the instincts and experience required to develop as a natural footballer, rather than a non thinking athlete/robot that executes perfect training drills, but has little to no instincts for the game.

I am not saying that the pathways program doesn't have its place, but it just appears to me to be the primary source of rugby for these guys instead of of it just being the representative icing on their rugby cake.

If a kid is good enough to play regular super rugby, then he should be playing super rugby (if the team needs it). If the player is good enough to be in the U20s programme, but not quite up to super rugby yet, then I think its fantastic that they are exposed to the elite training, but still feel that their primary rugby fix needs to be full contact matches as much as is healthy and possible - and that is senior premier rugby.

I think the depth and variability of tactics on display at Super 20s, Oceania Cup, U20 World Cup and NRC is broader than Premier Grade club because coaches benefit from being professionals and having professional systems around them.

I think to characterise this as "a couple of matches against the same group of guys" is incorrect.

Between the competitions listed above, most blokes are getting their 25ish games a year and aren't rotting away holding tackle shields and playing 10 games like their were in 2012.

It's not perfect, but I think your particular issues have been solved.

 

[Happy to Chat]

What the hell is Nabuli doing in Red never mind Gold he should be wearing Sunnybank Lawn Bowls colors......... Sorry Sunnybank Lawn Bowls members.


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[TOCC]

I just don't get the logic of club footy is better for development of future professionals than pathway programs.

Right now most starter level Under 20s players get 4 Super 20s games (plus 3 or so trials), an Under 20 WC + Oceania Championship (totalling in 6ish games), a few club footy games (let's say 5+), some NRC game time, and experience elite level coaching in the NRC, Super 20s, and probably even Super Rugby environment. That's 25ish games, which is the correct number.

Why do people think a year of club level coaching and games is preferable? Prem coaches are excellent coaches, but you don't have the time to go into details or really address rugby on a skills level.

Our way of developing players in that Sub 23yo window is literally the best it's ever been and I'm confident for all the flaws in Australia rugby that it'll deliver some gems.

We've had this chat before.... and for many players they aren't achieving this 25 game figure you keep mentioning, many are far less

Pathways programs isolate players away in camps, and unless you're in the start XV consistently then players aren't getting as much game time as they should or could be... and finally claiming it is the best it has ever been is extremely subjective, sure the S&C is bette then it's ever been, but the basic skills and game management are less then what they were 10 and 20 years ago

 

[Viking]

Not that I'm the biggest fan of Simmons for the wallabies, or a fan at all. But I still can't believe the Reds didn't offer him a contract. Wtf? He is a solid as hell super xv player and a Reds veteran. Crazy!

 

[cyclopath]

Because playing against bigger and waaaaaay more experienced, and crusty old farts teaches you how to rely on your brain instead of on your physical superiority.

Plus it gives exposure to a greater range of play styles.

Plus 28 yr old rugby players have muscles and bones made of concrete under their fat. U20s haven't been schnitzellled yet.

Love this line!

 

[The torpedo]

Random aside - I get the feeling that the reds may be switching back to maroon jumpers next year (Tahs game & the Indigenous jumper had black dots on a maroon background)

 

[liquor box]

Random aside - I get the feeling that the reds may be switching back to maroon jumpers next year (Tahs game & the Indigenous jumper had black dots on a maroon background)

I hope not, they should be in Red

 

[TOCC]

Random aside - I get the feeling that the reds may be switching back to maroon jumpers next year (Tahs game & the Indigenous jumper had black dots on a maroon background)

QRU sent out a survey asking if the change to maroon should be a permanent change

 

[amirite]

We've had this chat before.. and for many players they aren't achieving this 25 game figure you keep mentioning, many are far less

Pathways programs isolate players away in camps, and unless you're in the start XV consistently then players aren't getting as much game time as they should or could be. and finally claiming it is the best it has ever been is extremely subjective, sure the S&C is bette then it's ever been, but the basic skills and game management are less then what they were 10 and 20 years ago

I know, and I understand we disagree here.

But I've been vaguely involved with a lot of U20s guys, from blokes on full Super contracts in the Aus 20s to blokes in Super 20s squads but not getting a game there, and they've all played 20+ games this year (baring injury).

I just don't know who these blokes lacking games are.

 

[RedsHappy]

QRU sent out a survey asking if the change to maroon should be a permanent change

Good to see them caring about the big issues and their fans' perceptions.

Next we hope to see the QRU survey that asks: 'As a Reds Member do you consider that you are getting value for money for your investment and time spent at Reds matches?'

 

[The torpedo]

Next we hope to see the QRU survey that asks: 'As a Reds Member do you consider that you are getting value for money for your investment and time spent at Reds matches?'

If beer was cheaper yes

 

[hammertimethere]

Saw that Kerevi hurt his pec in the gym this week and thus will miss the final match. Reminds me, has head of performance Marsh already departed? I heard that apparently Thorn was largely running the program for the last few weeks.

Stiles remaining HC is a given, but pretty much all of his back room staff need to be replaced.
- Assistant coaches to cover attack and/or defence (unlikely that this will happen. They'll keep the two local boys rather than look for fresh ideas)
- an experienced head of performance
- probably another S & C assistant (Thorn, for all his worth, has little formal qualifications or experience in such a role)