Reds 2018

[dru]

Here's a thought now if we go back through the coaches (excl. McKenzie) - Mooney, Graham, Stiles & now we are including Thorn - are we saying that all of them were simply dud coaches? I think to be fair and reasonable no.(some maybe!!)

Mooney was a different beast, but the term "dud" will do for me for Graham and Stiles. I like Stiles but no his coaching was not successful.

Thorn is not a dud - he is premature.

Better management of the player list is also fundamental. These issues all start from connection to grass roots and pathways. In that much we completely agree.

 

[Scrubber2050]

As an aside - if someone like Higgers, who has been suspended multiple times over his career can still get a way with the "good record" mitigation, who wouldn't get away with it?

Hunt might

 

[Zero_Cool]

Mooney was a different beast, but the term "dud" will do for me for Graham and Stiles. I like Stiles but no his coaching was not successful.

Thorn is not a dud - he is premature.

Better management of the player list is also fundamental. These issues all start from connection to grass roots and pathways. In that much we completely agree.

I'd point out Stiles won the NRC unbeaten twice in row (if I recall correctly). I don't think it was known that Stiles was going to not work out and would rather suggest that perhaps Stiles was somewhat premature. I do also find it interesting that last season the Reds last season could have easily had 7 wins if things went their way.

Regardless Stiles had to be the sacrificial lamb given the team on paper and the outcomes that team produced.

Regarding Higgers and Tui (I'm going to assume they both are out for a few weeks), while I do think it's a major blow to lose both of them and it could have come at a worse time with Smith still being out for a few weeks. But the positives are we'll get to see Hockings/Blyth play some Super Rugby, and Liam Wright/ASY (Angus Scott-Young) come in at 7 with Korczyk moving to 7 and Timu to 8.
I think it's possible we find a diamond in one of those 4; hopefully we can not need to run Douglas (who has STILL yet to show anything much).
What do others think?

Slipper, BPA, Tupou, Rodda, Douglas(please not!), Wright, Korczyk, Timu.


Regarding the backs what changes if any do people think needs to change?
I personally think Lance to 15, Toua to wing for Nabuli, Stewart coming into 10.
I felt like the interplay between Paia'aua/Kerevi and Lance was poor (and Lance overall having an average game, maybe he needs to warm into the season). Paia'aua and Kerevi were both very good, CFS was decent. Toua wasn't good, but I think if he plays on the wing that'll limit his weaknesses.

Tuttle, Stewart, Toua, Paia'aua, Kerevi, CFS, Lance.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think the Reds haven't been nearly as ruthless as they needed to have been in moving on from players who didn't develop quickly enough or missed a lot of rugby through injury.

Hanging onto some of these players (like Toua, CFS, Taulagi, Schatz, Quirk) has meant missing out on better players who followed in the years after.

I don't think the Reds are the only team to have done this but arguably they have had the majority of the best under 20s come though in the last 5 years and missed out on signing several of the best of them.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I'd point out Stiles won the NRC unbeaten twice in row (if I recall correctly). I don't think it was known that Stiles was going to not work out and would rather suggest that perhaps Stiles was somewhat premature. I do also find it interesting that last season the Reds last season could have easily had 7 wins if things went their way.

Regardless Stiles had to be the sacrificial lamb given the team on paper and the outcomes that team produced.

Regarding Higgers and Tui (I'm going to assume they both are out for a few weeks), while I do think it's a major blow to lose both of them and it could have come at a worse time with Smith still being out for a few weeks. But the positives are we'll get to see Hockings/Blyth play some Super Rugby, and Liam Wright/ASY (Angus Scott-Young) come in at 7 with Korczyk moving to 7 and Timu to 8.
I think it's possible we find a diamond in one of those 4; hopefully we can not need to run Douglas (who has STILL yet to show anything much).
What do others think?

Slipper, BPA, Tupou, Rodda, Douglas(please not!), Wright, Korczyk, Timu.


Regarding the backs what changes if any do people think needs to change?
I personally think Lance to 15, Toua to wing for Nabuli, Stewart coming into 10.
I felt like the interplay between Paia'aua/Kerevi and Lance was poor (and Lance overall having an average game, maybe he needs to warm into the season). Paia'aua and Kerevi were both very good, CFS was decent. Toua wasn't good, but I think if he plays on the wing that'll limit his weaknesses.

Tuttle, Stewart, Toua, Paia'aua, Kerevi, CFS, Lance.

Think you are spot on in the forwards for this week.

Surely you aren't serious however that Kerevi was very good. He dropped 4 balls in contact (sure he scored a try by backing up).

I would keep Lance at 10. He was good with a couple of excellent line breaks and some tough front on defence. Stewart is the understudy and with Lance's often injuries he will get plenty of starts this year, ready to take the starting spot when Jonno heads off to England in 2019.

 

[SouthernX]

I was very impressed with Lance defense. Would always rush the defender once they got the ball and make low tackle before they could put a step on or get the offload.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Think you are spot on in the forwards for this week.

I do really hope we play Hocklyh over Douglas but perhaps we'll get lucky and Douglas will have a shitter of a game and he'll be banished from the 23. Alternatively hopefully he'll find some form he's been due a long while now!

I was very impressed with Lance defense. Would always rush the defender once they got the ball and make low tackle before they could put a step on or get the offload.

Clearly you haven't seen enough Stewart.... Stewarts defence is probably as good as any 10 in the world. He's almost identical to Lance in this regard, Stewart is maybe a little stronger physically.

You'd feel comfortable defensively playing him in the centers. (Actually I think there is a sneaky chance we see some combination of Lance/Stewart/Paia'aua as a 10/12/13 some time this season.)

I do think Thorn needs to find a way to get Stewart on the field this week, it was really very disappointing to not see Stewart at least given 20 min given there was no point to the last 20 min in that game. I really don't understand why you wouldn't get him on unless it was trying to protect him from a loss -- yet we saw McDermott (who we probably won't see again for a while).

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^^
Bloke is tough as teak and has absolutely no fear - same with him attacking the line.

The only missing ingredient in him not being a world class 10 is lightning speed.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Zero
I am a fan of Hamish but I would like him brought on slowly. 15 - 20 minutes would be great

 

[Simon.]

Wright to come into the starting side, but I'd rather Korczyk goes to 8 and Timu stays at 6. Timu has struggled at the back of the scrum in the trials.

Tui is going for full judicial hearing which I reckon runs the risk of 8 weeks if he's found guilty. Personally I think he'll be found guilty but may still be able to get it halved due to his good record and the fact the cleanout from the Rebels player contributed to the tip, which I think is what they are counting on in his defence. Unfortunately for the Reds mitigating circumstances like that are rarely enough to get a player off scot free. So maybe 4 weeks.

Douglas should get the starting spot, Hocking to the bench.

 

[liquor box]

I'd point out Stiles won the NRC unbeaten twice in row (if I recall correctly).

Certainly an achievement but have a look at the team he had compared to the other NRC teams in those years.

If Brisbane City had not won he would surely be considered a very poor coach. I think every U15's coach in Australia could have won the premiership with the team he had.

I consider Thorn winning with QLD Country a far better achievement.

The biggest issue I have with the Reds is the jobs for the boys attitude and not being willing to try for something outside of the box...apart from Link.

maybe there was a lesson to be learnt about getting the best man available for the job.

 

[Zero_Cool]

^^^^^^
Bloke is tough as teak and has absolutely no fear - same with him attacking the line.

The only missing ingredient in him not being a world class 10 is lightning speed.

I am a fan of Hamish but I would like him brought on slowly. 15 - 20 minutes would be great

Nah mate, when you see him play in the centers and hit rucks like he does, it's clear teak doesn't cut it. He's Queensland Ironbark through and through! Sometimes I actually worry that he'll get himself injured because he literally appears to have no fear.
He is a bit on the sluggish side but I do think he compensates for that with his very hard running and apparently infinite time with the ball in hand. He's got a (relatively) slow body but lightnighy quick in his mind, sees the game really really well.

Wright to come into the starting side, but I'd rather Korczyk goes to 8 and Timu stays at 6. Timu has struggled at the back of the scrum in the trials.

Tui is going for full judicial hearing which I reckon runs the risk of 8 weeks if he's found guilty. Personally I think he'll be found guilty but may still be able to get it halved due to his good record and the fact the cleanout from the Rebels player contributed to the tip, which I think is what they are counting on in his defence. Unfortunately for the Reds mitigating circumstances like that are rarely enough to get a player off scot free. So maybe 4 weeks.




Douglas should get the starting spot, Hocking to the bench.

Yeah, I did start yelling at the TV at that point about 7 (IIRC) also getting involved, plus Genia isn't the hardest player to tip to begin with and the way he was running didn't help either. But I do think Tui has a bit of form in this having monstered players in the past (although I think he's mostly gotten away with it), he really needs to learn to control it a bit more.

I do agree Timu has struggled to hold the ball at the back of the scrum; presumably our scrum will be very good against the Brumbies given they didn't bully the Sunwolves relatively small pack (and the Rob Valetini injury helps too).

What about ASY (Angus Scott-Young), didn't he play no8 during school? (Plus I think he's quite underrated!)
I think Korczyk isn't that bullucking runner nor does he have the hands we really need at 8. I do generally prefer Timu at 8 over 6/7 as he's often been a bit too slow to come off the scrum and fill that hole. But I do agree he definitely needs to work on holding the ball at the base.

 

[RugbyReg]

Certainly an achievement but have a look at the team he had compared to the other NRC teams in those years.

If Brisbane City had not won he would surely be considered a very poor coach. I think every U15's coach in Australia could have won the premiership with the team he had.

I consider Thorn winning with QLD Country a far better achievement.

The biggest issue I have with the Reds is the jobs for the boys attitude and not being willing to try for something outside of the box.apart from Link.

maybe there was a lesson to be learnt about getting the best man available for the job.

Stiles only won undefeated once - in his 2nd year. His won in the first year, but lost games (including dropping 70 points to the Rising).

I've done the comparisons before between that QLD Country team last year and the Brisbane City team in the first NRC, and they are pretty much bang on in terms of caps and age. Country in fact were a little bit more experienced. You look at that City side now and think wow, but back then they were rookies. Kerevi (who missed the final anyway) had only played 2 Super Rugby games I think. Talakai, Ready, McIntyre etc hadn't played Super Rugby. On paper they were below at least the Rising, and perhaps a few more

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Nah mate, when you see him play in the centers and hit rucks like he does, it's clear teak doesn't cut it. He's Queensland Ironbark through and through! Sometimes I actually worry that he'll get himself injured because he literally appears to have no fear.
He is a bit on the sluggish side but I do think he compensates for that with his very hard running and apparently infinite time with the ball in hand. He's got a (relatively) slow body but lightnighy quick in his mind, sees the game really really well.



Yeah, I did start yelling at the TV at that point about 7 (IIRC) also getting involved, plus Genia isn't the hardest player to tip to begin with and the way he was running didn't help either. But I do think Tui has a bit of form in this having monstered players in the past (although I think he's mostly gotten away with it), he really needs to learn to control it a bit more.

I do agree Timu has struggled to hold the ball at the back of the scrum; presumably our scrum will be very good against the Brumbies given they didn't bully the Sunwolves relatively small pack (and the Rob Valetini injury helps too).

What about ASY (Angus Scott-Young), didn't he play no8 during school? (Plus I think he's quite underrated!)
I think Korczyk isn't that bullucking runner nor does he have the hands we really need at 8. I do generally prefer Timu at 8 over 6/7 as he's often been a bit too slow to come off the scrum and fill that hole. But I do agree he definitely needs to work on holding the ball at the base.

Plenty of teams play different players at the back of scrums for attack and defense. Food for thought. Also how is Georgie's back? He has plenty of experience playing there.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Yeah I would have said that Stiles had the best players when HE won it and last year Thorn had the best players and HE won it.

A lot of it is about the cattle although I think Thorn did a good job instilling certain team-mate sort of stuff into the Country boys - one might even use the word "culture"

 

[Brumby Runner]

Nah mate, when you see him play in the centers and hit rucks like he does, it's clear teak doesn't cut it. He's Queensland Ironbark through and through! Sometimes I actually worry that he'll get himself injured because he literally appears to have no fear.
He is a bit on the sluggish side but I do think he compensates for that with his very hard running and apparently infinite time with the ball in hand. He's got a (relatively) slow body but lightnighy quick in his mind, sees the game really really well.

So, Rod Kafer MkII?

 

[dru]

A lot of it is about the cattle although I think Thorn did a good job instilling certain team-mate sort of stuff into the Country boys - one might even use the word "culture"

Yes he deserves that. Is it good enough for the Reds?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Yes he deserves that. Is it good enough for the Reds?

Personally I think we are down a bit on cattle, a few Poddy's and a couple of Scrubbers but long term Thorn will
increase the overall quality of the Herd

 

[Zero_Cool]

Personally I think we are down a bit on cattle, a few Poddy's and a couple of Scrubbers but long term Thorn will
increase the overall quality of the Herd

I really strongly disagree with this, I look at our team and sure right now we have a lot of sub-standard players, but they are all talented and most exceedingly young.


Sef Fa'agase could start for a Super team and is 24.
Tupou is a fucking Wallaby and is 21!
Even the 19 year old Harry Hoopert is showing some promise.

BPA is 22, Mafi is 21, Ready was a boardline Wallaby and is 24.

Rodda and Tui are both 21 and could potentially be the Wallabies Locking pair (sure there would need to be a few players out but it's possible).
Hockings & Blyth are 19 and are showing a lot of promise.

Korczyk is 23 and was in the Wallabies Squad. Timu is 24 and just won NRC player of the Year. Hewat (22) and Gunn (22) are probably our worst contracted lose forwards and are good enough to make a heap of super squads. ASY (Angus Scott-Young) and Wright have shown a ton of promise.

Tuttle is growing into a good halfback and is on worse than any other Aussie halfback to have not won a Super Rugby title with Quade Cooper. Not sure on Serovi (22) and McDermott (19) but it's possible they could come good.

We have Hamish Stewart (20) who's quite possible the next Wallaby 10, I don't know who else is going to come close given Chika refuses to play any sensible non-Foley options there. (Mac Mason has potential too but playing behind Foley will make it impossible to get a game; also heard some rumblings that he'll be courted by the QRU once his Waratahs contract is up.)

Centers is our weakest position (in terms of youth) and yet we have Samu Kerevi (24), and Duncan Paia'aua (22); a Wallaby startre and a Paia'aua should have been in the squad last year. Also CFS (24) looks to be finally coming good.

On the wing we have Daugunu (22) the high try scorer in the NRC, and Perese (20) who has been to more Wallabies camps than he is years old!

Sure not all of those guys are going to work out, but they all have the potential to be very good. Some consistency under a coach who will drive them to grow their game as best they can and they all have the potential to be future Wallabies.


The only guys who I think don't have a long future with the club are Markus Vanzati, JP Smith, Kane Douglas, George Smith (coaching maybe), Higginbotham, Lucas, Lance, Tela, Nabuli, Toua and Hunt (maybe no future). Not bad when of a 40 odd man squad 30 of them are young and talented and are going to have bright futures with the club.

 

[dru]

Personally I think we are down a bit on cattle, a few Poddy's and a couple of Scrubbers but long term Thorn will
increase the overall quality of the Herd

My thoughts on having the cattle available wasn't specifically about this crop of Reds. More about the production line available to the QRU. It is more than enough of a base to create a successful Super Rugby franchise, imo.