Reds 2017

[TheKing]

If the Force were to be scrapped, I can't envisage much of a feeding frenzy of their players..

Morahan, DHP, McCalman, Naisarani, Lance and Tapuai would get signed immediately, but what about the remaining guys?

Compare that to the mad scramble to sign the Rebels or any other club's players if they were to be cut loose instead.

As sad as it is, the Force add the least to Australian Rugby and if financial ruin is just over the horizon, I wouldn't object to them being scrapped to preserve the future of the sport here.

 

[TOCC]

Reds have enough problems without also discussing the Force's problems in this thread

 

[Beer Baron]

Makes us feel better.. classic low self esteem act!

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[Jets]

The fact they beat us this year should be enough of a reason for us to keep quiet. Lets worry about our own back yard before getting involved in other issues.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

And there lies the issue with receuiting based on youtube videos and schoolboy hype. Plenty of people have not made the transition. Problem union has the prospect of Toyota cup vs club rugby is an easy one and the nrc is a way off pulling people ( great for those already in the system/code). So union has to be super aggressive for the stars which can either backfire or be a gill/pocock story. Injuries to the side, Hunt was never going to shine at the RG led reds. We could have made folau look shit.

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As much as I would like to recruit ponga, realistically his asking price would be too much for the risks - maybe try and nab him for his next contract when he has proven the goods.

Like to see us pick up talent at younger age though as question whether recruiting hunt at 27 such a good idea vs say koribete who has just turned 24.


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[Rugbynutter39]

I find your comments nearsighted King - for as far as growth in new markets WA rugby offers good potential if could be nurtured better. I also think Force have a few more talented players than you give credit for.

Might be smaller fish but growth potential there if could be managed better.

On another matter....Moore approaching end of his career so why would Reds sign him? Pretty simple for me as on leadership front Reds clearly lacked on leadership stakes for last few seasons, and Moore certainly good on the leadership stakes which is imo only reason still starting ahead of TPN.

 

[Tomikin]

I find your comments nearsighted King - for as far as growth in new markets WA rugby offers good potential if could be nurtured better. I also think Force have a few more talented players than you give credit for.

Might be smaller fish but growth potential there if could be managed better.

On another matter..Moore approaching end of his career so why would Reds sign him? Pretty simple for me as on leadership front Reds clearly lacked on leadership stakes for last few seasons, and Moore certainly good on the leadership stakes which is imo only reason still starting ahead of TPN.

And the fact Moore is a top hooker.. even if you don't think his wallabies forms been great he be dominate at Super rugby

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[TSR]

Moore's form seems to have picked up a bit in the last two tests.

I've no doubt he still has plenty to offer at super rugby level.

 

[TOCC]

Conversely, i think Ready's NRC is down slightly on 2015.. Still good, but the set piece has faltered, specifically Brisbane's line-out and he has given away far too many penalties and YC's.. Obviously a player for the future, but the Reds will be well served to have Moore's experience and leadership in 2017.

 

[TSR]

It's very tough for young guys to maintain form over an entire lengthy season. This is really his first year stepping up regularly at Super rugby level.

It is one of the reasons that, while I think he remains up there in terms of Wallaby prospects, I'm actually happy he has been left out of the squad to date.

 

[NTT]

If the Force were to be scrapped, I can't envisage much of a feeding frenzy of their players..

Morahan, DHP, McCalman, Naisarani, Lance and Tapuai would get signed immediately, but what about the remaining guys?

Compare that to the mad scramble to sign the Rebels or any other club's players if they were to be cut loose instead.

As sad as it is, the Force add the least to Australian Rugby and if financial ruin is just over the horizon, I wouldn't object to them being scrapped to preserve the future of the sport here.

So no one would want Coleman or DHP?

Considering it has cost the ARU $800 000 in emergency cash grants to help the Force survive compared to the $10 million sunk into the Rebels over half that time period, why has the Force become the target of speculation they could be cut? If you ran two shops where one loses over ten times the money of other one, you would keep the one losing the higher amount?
#Queenslandlogic

Also that $800 000 is less than NSW, Qld and ACT have also received in emergency cash grants.

Instead of refusing to change their structures, the Force looked for ways to reduce operating costs to avoid future dependence on cash handouts, something the other franchises have not done. So in reality, don't you think the real problem maybe a refusal to adapt to a changing business landscape by the people running the game in the "core traditional states"?

 

[Waterboyrugby]

As much as I would like to recruit ponga, realistically his asking price would be too much for the risks - maybe try and nab him for his next contract when he has proven the goods.

Like to see us pick up talent at younger age though as question whether recruiting hunt at 27 such a good idea vs say koribete who has just turned 24.


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The main crux of this Hunt/Ponga signing argument boils down to contract management, like anything with a market, people can pay crazy prices and only learn if they made the right call down the track.

For the Reds, they have mad some very poor decisions. But for every bad investment like the return on Hunt's contract, the Reds have won on guys like Kerevi's contract, who on a bargain deal, outpeformed that 10x over. It is very difficult to get it right all the time, and you must take calculated risks.

Is $500k too much for an 18 y.o. Ponga? You will only find out in about 3 years. There is significant risk but if it goes well, the reward is obvious. Hunt at 27, could've been good, but at $600k a season expectations were already sky high. This was a high risk deal made so by the price. What was the probability the Reds were gonna get a Folau type transition? Injuries, off field drama, underwhelming impact on the field have made that a bad contract.

Secondly, you need to sign players that fit your system & gameplan. At the moment, the Ponga deal would be a terrible career move for him. If he was to be put out there, I can imagine him standing idle for long patches every 5-10 mins whilst Slipper and the boys decide to pack another one down. At the back no doubt he would be told to kick it out or back to the other team. The Reds cant string more than 4 phases together so when is he going to get some ball in space? If he wants to play Union, I would undoubtedly advise him to get over to NZ.

The structure and game play at the Reds have hampered Hunt's rugby career as much as any other factor as well and contributed to the poor investment.

 

[liquor box]

So no one would want Coleman or DHP?

Considering it has cost the ARU $800 000 in emergency cash grants to help the Force survive compared to the $10 million sunk into the Rebels over half that time period, why has the Force become the target of speculation they could be cut? If you ran two shops where one loses over ten times the money of other one, you would keep the one losing the higher amount?
#Queenslandlogic

Also that $800 000 is less than NSW, Qld and ACT have also received in emergency cash grants.

Instead of refusing to change their structures, the Force looked for ways to reduce operating costs to avoid future dependence on cash handouts, something the other franchises have not done. So in reality, don't you think the real problem maybe a refusal to adapt to a changing business landscape by the people running the game in the "core traditional states"?

I think most Queenslanders would rather the Force because they don't have daylight savings #Queenslandlogic

 

[liquor box]

So the NRC is now over and what a disappointing season for the QLD teams.

Funnily enough I am very positive about the future of the Reds. Speaking to the wife during the weekends game and I said it is funny that the QLD teams are bottom of the table but the reds could feasibly be half the Wallaby team at the next world cup.

This is an exaggeration but the future is looking bright.

 

[RugbyReg]

The number 7 jersey still is a big concern from me. Gunn hasn't shown much to me this NRC, not to suggest he can match it at Super level.

Obviously we have George Smith, but surely we can't be relying on him.

We've had a production line of 7s since Miller, Wilson, Croft, Gill (with Beau brought in around there). Where's our next? Moroney? Wright?

 

[Highlander35]

Could always be an arsehole and take Tupai off us.

Or slightly more realistically, Rowan Perry.

 

[amirite]

So the NRC is now over and what a disappointing season for the QLD teams.

Funnily enough I am very positive about the future of the Reds. Speaking to the wife during the weekends game and I said it is funny that the QLD teams are bottom of the table but the reds could feasibly be half the Wallaby team at the next world cup.

This is an exaggeration but the future is looking bright.

Whilst I agree, if you look at the NPC in NZ because there's a bigger sample size of data, the performance of the teams affiliated with a franchise just doesn't matter.

I'd look more at how blokes are developing. Rodda, Tui, Paia'aua, Banks, Lefau, Perese, Fowler, Gibbon, and Tupou all look like they can do something of note next year - maybe even be Super starting quality players (not all are signed, but most are or at least not signed elsewhere).

 

[Getwithme]

What's Fowler's chance of being a top 3 halfback here? Wouldn't be surprised if left if not given the opportunity to be 3rd here

 

[amirite]

What's Fowler's chance of being a top 3 halfback here? Wouldn't be surprised if left if not given the opportunity to be 3rd here

Well, it depends on who you talk to. Some rate him above Sorovi (Aus U20s for example) and some don't.

Personally, I think he has a excellent base pass (the best in his age group) which has to be a halfback's foundation skill.

But, I listed 9 up-and-comers, so it's not like it was just Fowler.

 

[Sauron]

How many weeks until pre-season formally starts?

Surely they've picked the assistant coaches by now, they're just waiting to announce it?