Reds 2017

[Scrubber2050]

Wow, if your club has $200 000 to spend on a coach then i really don't see the argument for more funding directly to Premier Grade clubs. I mean thats more than some WA Premier Grade clubs turnover for the whole year. It also further enhances Mr Pulvers argument that Clubs could use their money better.

$200 000 could pay the rego fees of 1000 juniors for example.

Suppose that is the difference in having the "owner" of the club being in private enterprise. Obviously Bond looks to a holistic approach as a Uni and if they can attract a few students (who also want to play rugby) the cost is negated. A few more and they actually turn a profit from it's rugby program.

The Bond name seems to now ever present in rugby circles and even throughout Australia with the QLD Country team being sponsored by them.

Frankly I would love to see more investment by the private sector in grassroots rugby.

 

[NTT]

All clubs fundraise through different methods. The argument is about how they use that money. Some clubs in Perth are lucky if they have $100 000 to run the whole club for one season let alone have $200 000 just for one coach. It just emphasises the argument that grassroots clubs could be using their money better.

 

[NTT]

Without harping on and highjackin the Reds thread my point is that why do Shute Shield or Hospital Cup teams need more direct funding from the ARU if they have that amount of money spare for 1 coach? Why dont they pay a coach $100 000 and spend an extra $100 000 on junior development? Why do these clubs argue against the trickle down model implemented by the ARU when they are following the same method themselves? Why is it more important to fund jobs for the boys instead of funding junior development?

 

[dru]

@NTT agree. Drop over to the tier 3.5 thing. I for one have had a gutfull of it and would rather it didn't appear here.

Cheers bloke.

 

[Ignoto]

I would have liked to have seen at least one of the guys in the coaching setup be both experienced *and* successful at this level.

On the other hand, by giving Stiles the nod for HC, you've got a pretty inexperienced guy at the helm. So if you were a experienced and successful coach at this level, you would have been vying for that HC role and not an AC role.

As a result, I'd dare say they burnt some bridges by not giving a lot of worthy candidates the HC role who wouldn't to have limited control as an assistant.

 

[Train Without a Station]

NTT I wouldn't confuse Bond Uni with the clubs asking for funding.

The Hedger deal is basically funded by the University and is from what I've heard, a $200k package which includes car and a fully funded MBA.

I don't think you will ever hear the Bond Uni Club asking for funding and the flow of funds is well and truly in the opposite direction with them chipping in apparently $400k for naming rights sponsorship of the QC (Quade Cooper) NRC team and they also sponsor the Reds.

They also host International U20 games.

 

[RugbyReg]

Bond uni wouldn't ask the QRU for money. They are actually a sponsor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RedsHappy]

RH, how was it possible?

Probably luck.

Matt Taylor has no recorded coaching experience I can find anywhere prior to his time at the Reds. Evans retired at the end of his tenure, but had bounced around premier clubs before coming to the Reds after a great deal of coaching experience.

Not sure about Fowler but I recall he was located in Brisbane at the time.

McKay had no top level experience. His last two appointments were the Leicester Academy coach (So no different to one of the current appointments) and Head Coach of Cornish Pirates when they were in National One and the Henley Hawks at the same level before that.

With the exception of Evans and Fowler which were probably more luck than anything, the rest of the support team in 2011 didn't have glowing resumes really.

Whatever the merits of the arguments here over costs and so on re the 2017 Reds coaching group, I can assure you that the design and objectives for, and the resulting outcomes from, LInk's 2010-11 coaching group were not 'luck' in any sense.

As this is/was a subject of great interest to me, I had a long discussion with Link re how he chose this coaching group at one of the Reds Gala Balls I attended and he explained how he went about designing and selecting his coaching team. He was meticulous and his thinking was inspiringly good.

Link is a highly intelligent, analytically-oriented person who thought deeply about everything he did as HC. Perfect examples of which were to be found in his Fairfax columns when Reds coach, the eloquence and quality of their subject matter from a rugby HC I have seen no equal of anywhere in the world.

It's a bleeding tragedy that he is now totally lost to Australian rugby.

(For the sake of good times past: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...nsland-reds-car-go-faster-20110421-1dpme.html)

 

[RedsHappy]

RH, how was it possible?

Probably luck.

Matt Taylor has no recorded coaching experience I can find anywhere prior to his time at the Reds. .....

IIRC M Taylor was a quite successful QLD GPS rugby coach for The Southport School pre joining Link at the Reds in 2010.

This from a 2012 Fairfax article:

​

"A key contributor in the thrilling (2012) 25-21 win over NSW, Tapuai takes Anthony Fainga'a's No.13 jersey and will rekindle a partnership with (Jono) Lance that dates back to 2006 at The Southport School (TSS) on the Gold Coast.​

​

The pair also played with fellow Reds James Slipper, Rob Simmons and Luke Morahan for TSS, under the tutelage of Queensland defence coach Matt Taylor, to win the 2007 GPS premiership."​

Further, again through past mists of memory, I am pretty sure that Link stated that Taylor had written some top-class analytical papers re rugby playing tactics and this had particularly impressed him re Taylor's approach to the game in general.

 

[dru]

So RH, I love your experience. Wish I had had the opportunity to chat with Link like that at that time.

It's unlikely that Stiles is at that point. But I'd suggest its a quality that may be in his future. And in this case do these ACs work adequately? I've little to base it on, but I'm thinking its looking good.

I'd love Link back. But its a kind of mindless commentry. The Issue is, after we chose Stiles, are we doing OK with his support?

For now I'm optimistic.

 

[RedsHappy]

So RH, I love your experience. Wish I had had the opportunity to chat with Link like that at that time.

It's unlikely that Stiles is at that point. But I'd suggest its a quality that may be in his future. And in this case do these ACs work adequately? I've little to base it on, but I'm thinking its looking good.

I'd love Link back. But its a kind of mindless commentry. The Issue is, after we chose Stiles, are we doing OK with his support?

For now I'm optimistic.

And fair enough too. I wish for the best from this coaching group, I really do.

It's just that the ratio of what they have to achieve quite fast and what they have actually achieved before is a challenging and demanding one.

Good HCs and coaching teams make notable team improvements quickly. We'll know by 2017 Round 6 or so how well this group is performing.

 

[dru]

And fair enough too. I wish for the best from this coaching group, I really do.

It's just that the ratio of what they have to achieve quite fast and what they have actually achieved before is a challenging and demanding one.

Good HCs and coaching teams make notable team improvements quickly. We'll know by 2017 Round 6 or so how well this group is performing.

And in the mean time can it be anything other than 5000% better than the kack RG times?

RH, we're comng from a really shite nadir. Let's look forward. We all get the nadir.

 

[Train Without a Station]

RH,

What I said was the was no recorded experience. Certainly it wasn't his first time coaching, but none of it was noteworthy enough to come up after my searching.

From what you have said between him and McKay they had no proven experience at a high level.

I have no doubt Link considered their merits and what they bring to the table.

But it was luck that both were in QLD age available, and that both unproven candidates worked out well at the next level. Combined with the proximity and availability of Fowler and Evans.

Some of these things just work in your favour because of factors outside your control. In this case it was these quality candidates being in Brisbane and wanting to stay.

What better candidates are there from the same circles as the Reds two new appointments? Because we have to consider that these are really the sane circles that McKaybabd Taylor were selected from.

I do not consider this to be a good team at all from what I know, but don't necessarily believe there are better options readily available.

 

[Hawko]

It's nothing to do with 'conspiracy theories'. You misinterpret me. Conspiracy implies conscious and calculated conduct. That is not what has happened at the QRU.

It's rather to do with proven yet mostly unconscious institutional inbred cultural norms and insularity and such like issues of the type that directly led to the 4-year-long RG mega-disaster and all that went it it.

These matters are not 'conspiracies' as such, rather they are unthinking patterns of learnt behaviours and prejudices that shield the entity concerned from aspects of its life that it perceives as threatening or causing of internal anxiety and which thus require real innovation and openness to new perspectives and persons to ever change. Just as happened in a crisis-led manner from 2009 when Link and Carmichael and fresh others were brought into the QRU.

One thing you have to say though, is that this is not just an attitude that's special to the QRU. I would hazard a guess that it would define the "Queenslander" attitude that is probably held by at least 80% of the population in that state. Think "Joh for Canberra" or more recently the political success of One Nation. Most Queenslanders genuinely believe that the font of all wisdom is to be found in other Queenslanders and that "Southeners" don't know what they are talking about.

Now that is not necessarily a precursor to poor performance. The QLD State of Origin dominance is founded on the belief of intrinsic QLD superiority. So maybe the Reds are looking to found a new "State of Origin-like" dynasty that will see them dominate Super Rugby for the next decade.

 

[Scoey]

It's late and I'm bloody tired, but is that post a gee up Hawko? I can't tell?

Bit of a sweeping generalisation if it's not!

 

[gel]

Has to be.

 

[TOCC]

One thing you have to say though, is that this is not just an attitude that's special to the QRU. I would hazard a guess that it would define the "Queenslander" attitude that is probably held by at least 80% of the population in that state. Think "Joh for Canberra" or more recently the political success of One Nation. Most Queenslanders genuinely believe that the font of all wisdom is to be found in other Queenslanders and that "Southeners" don't know what they are talking about.

Now that is not necessarily a precursor to poor performance. The QLD State of Origin dominance is founded on the belief of intrinsic QLD superiority. So maybe the Reds are looking to found a new "State of Origin-like" dynasty that will see them dominate Super Rugby for the next decade.

Queenslanders don't think they know best, but when you get a patronising comments like this generalising a whole state, it certainly gets people's backs up and perpetuates this "southerner" arrogance..

 

[TSR]

Hawko - honestly mate, thats rot.

 

[TOCC]

All clubs fundraise through different methods. The argument is about how they use that money. Some clubs in Perth are lucky if they have $100 000 to run the whole club for one season let alone have $200 000 just for one coach. It just emphasises the argument that grassroots clubs could be using their money better.

Bond Uni, UQ and Sydney Uni are unique and aren't a representation of the wider grass roots or a reflection of how other SS/QPR clubs operate..

 

[Scrubber2050]

Bond Uni, UQ and Sydney Uni are unique and aren't a representation of the wider grass roots or a reflection of how other SS/QPR clubs operate..

Agree but it seems to be catching on.

I believe Griffith Uni is making moves to enter the Brisbane Prem Comp over the next period of time - from their Gold Coast Campus.