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Reds 2016

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suckerforred

suckerforred

Chilla Wilson (44)
My 2 cents:

Re development - Reds seem to be able to get the players to toddler stage fairly efficiently. But getting them beyond that and stepping up with the big boys seems to be the problem. Whether it is difficulty in identifying who to keep and who to let go, or the actual development of the players kept I don't know. But I am starting to wonder if it is the later. Placid, Butler & Toua come to mind this season......

Browning - I wonder if the reason we haven't seen the best of him is that he has spent most of his playing time in the last years being shoe horned into positions that don't really suit. For mine I think that he is an 8 who can play a bit of 6, but he is currently being tried to be turned into a "traditional" 7. Yes I know the back row is all about balance but it would be nice to see him get a chance at 8 and get the chance to settle there. However...... it is hard to justify dropping Shatz as per some of the arguments made above and right now you wouldn't drop Tui unless he was missing a leg. If the coach thinks that we need more penetration in attack over line out performance then perhaps CB will get a go. Having said that - before he did his knee last year he was one of the go to line out catches.
 
liquor box

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
I wonder if we are too loyal to a certain degree by not dropping out of form players.

Maybe players improve when they leave because they have realised that they do not have job certainty and have to work rather than rely on talent.

Case in point is CFS, I feel his form has dropped rapidly but am sure if he was let go by the club and got offered a chance elsewhere he would work his arse off and be great again.

I just do not think the Reds have the ability to choose self motivated players or develop them.
 
Scrubber2050

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
liquor box said:
I wonder if we are too loyal to a certain degree by not dropping out of form players.

Maybe players improve when they leave because they have realised that they do not have job certainty and have to work rather than rely on talent.

Case in point is CFS, I feel his form has dropped rapidly but am sure if he was let go by the club and got offered a chance elsewhere he would work his arse off and be great again.

I just do not think the Reds have the ability to choose self motivated players or develop them.
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I think that is a Cordingly issue. Good footy player but leaves a lot to be desired in his current role.
 
dru

dru

Tim Horan (67)
Scrubber2050 said:
I think that is a Cordingly issue. Good footy player but leaves a lot to be desired in his current role.
Click to expand...

I'm intrigued by this comment, clearly I dont understand the roles. Wouldnt continuing to select a player, or dropping him, be a coach role? Would have that by that stage the "pathways and list management" was done. (?)
 
Beer Baron

Beer Baron

Phil Hardcastle (33)
I wonder how much influence higher powers had on JOC (James O'Connor) and Goromoru signings and even Karmichael. Surely Cordingly only has rugby on the brain when looking at recruitment but the above 3 have massive marketing pull - something which I would think is outside of Cordinglys sphere of influence.

I think (hope) Cordingly would have preferred a world class 10 over a bench, non-English speaking fullback - however I wonder how much choice he had???

Similar with JOC (James O'Connor) - I wonder if he was Cordingly's decision??

the rest of the players recruitment has been alright I think - Tui, the ETS/WTS (whatever it is now called) looks promising.
 
RugbyReg

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
From what I hear about JOC (James O'Connor), not even the coach wanted him. It was a 'head office' call.
 
Scrubber2050

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
dru said:
I'm intrigued by this comment, clearly I dont understand the roles. Wouldnt continuing to select a player, or dropping him, be a coach role? Would have that by that stage the "pathways and list management" was done. (?)
Click to expand...


Yep you are absolutely correct (IMO) re selecting or deselecting a player on matchday being a coach's role.

I was more talking about the selection of players to join the Reds, and in particular the young blokes leaving school.

I would think that in the retention stakes the Coach together with Cordingly would be the decision makers particularly in the recruitment (and retention).

I am happy to be enlightened as to the extent of Cordingly's role. Maybe Reg could assist ?
 
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Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I'm still confused who this supposed world class 10 is that the Reds could have signed.

How much money could have been offered and to who?

It seemed like a pipe dream more than a realistic outcome.
 
Beer Baron

Beer Baron

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Not saying there was a world class - my point more so was that for all the money thrown at Goro. I'm sure it could have been better spent elsewhere. I imagine he was worth a bit to the Sunwolves!

As mentioned earlier there surely someone more suitable to be riding the pine with Greene/McIntyre and the other young-en tearing up prem-grade rather than getting splinters.
 
RugbyReg

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Beer Baron said:
Not saying there was a world class - my point more so was that for all the money thrown at Goro. I'm sure it could have been better spent elsewhere. I imagine he was worth a bit to the Sunwolves!

As mentioned earlier there surely someone more suitable to be riding the pine with Greene/McIntyre and the other young-en tearing up prem-grade rather than getting splinters.
Click to expand...

How much was thrown at him? I thought Breakdown or someone alluded to the fact that Japanese contracts in Oz are largely subsidized by the JRFU?


Scrubber2050 said:
I am happy to be enlightened as to the extent of Cordingly's role. Maybe Reg could assist ?
Click to expand...

It's a little confusing now. Dan Herbert's role is basically around player contracting - perhaps more so the negotiation side. Thus I SUSPECT Cordingly is more about player ID etc, so more a liaison with Managers etc as to who is available. List management would come down to, I think, Herbert and the Head Coach as to where the gaps are, who they don't need and who'd they'd like to target. Cords would then do the footwork to fill those spots.

Perhaps
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Beer Baron said:
Not saying there was a world class - my point more so was that for all the money thrown at Goro. I'm sure it could have been better spent elsewhere. I imagine he was worth a bit to the Sunwolves!

As mentioned earlier there surely someone more suitable to be riding the pine with Greene/McIntyre and the other young-en tearing up prem-grade rather than getting splinters.
Click to expand...


I believe it was reported earlier this thread that the Goromaru contract was only worth about $200k.

I can't imagine many Reds fans would have been cheering if Peter Grant had been signed ahead of the Force.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Beer Barron It's not really that simple though, Goro is in Australia on what is essentially a flexible contract reportedly worth around 200k/year. All the 'world class' 5/8s available are in Europe and to sign one of them you are looking towards a figure closer to 500k because they would need to sacrifice their European contract to play Super Rugby. Japanese players are able to play both the Top League and Super Rugby without overlapping and that's probably why they don't demand wages as high.
 
pjm

pjm

Billy Sheehan (19)
We need specialist kickers in union that only take kicks. I'm sick of crap players getting a run simply because they can kick the ball between two posts. Reduce penalties to two points though.
 
dru

dru

Tim Horan (67)
In terms of 10's, step forward rather than world class, could they have tried for Lance? I also like Boschoff from the Lions who doesnt seem to be involved at the moment. The "world" is a big place.

As it turns out, I'm OK with MacIntyre (and Greene) as long as there is strong coaching and rational development. The 10 clearly needs a calming influence at 12 for now. Very happy to see Ant back this weekend.

I'd be holding MacIntyre to continue to work largely to pre-set decissions. Until he can "dial-in" to the speed of Super Rugby. Until he does we are not going to see too many holes opened up. Watching the Souths v Uni game, then the Reds v Rebels, the speed differences are not just a step different. Its chalk and cheese.

Lets see Ant mix it a bit, and more of Hunt coming in to first reciever. Happy to see Frisbey dictate the heavy first 10 mins each half through pigs or to 13.

How about the chance that Waita Setu is being given! Stuff that dreams are made of. Paraka and Mafi also with big opportunities. Go for it boys!!!
 
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