Reds 2015

[BDA]

@USA Ruggers - I agree it was a bad call by Deans, and his tenure as coach was characterised by an inability to make the most of a world class group of backs to create a backline that could actually score tries.

Whilst I'm not going to defend Deans, I will say the 10 cupboard was particularly bare last year (To'omua was pretty green, Foley was not on the radar, Barnes was Barnes). Deans personal rift with Cooper was one of many reasons we lost the series.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yet 5 Super Rugby games later McKenzie was willing to punt on To'omua against the All Blacks?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Deans by virtue of his own odd selection criteria ruled out every available option. When you make up reasons to not select almost anybody else, you tend to leave the cupboard fairly bare.

 

[Dumbledore]

Ha okay so I mightt have stretched the truth a bit there. Still, it's barely worth talking about, he'll have been signed to play wing and provide cover for 10, 12 and 15.

 

[TOCC]

For teams like the Rebels and Force, JOC (James O'Connor) was the main threat and the pivotal player. In the Reds back line he will sit behind Genia and Quade in the playmaking stakes.

At the same time, Quade has looked flat this year because he is the only threat in the Reds backline, having another player to attract some of the attention and alleviate pressure should, in theory be of benefit to both of them.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yet 5 Super Rugby games later McKenzie was willing to punt on To'omua against the All Blacks?

... and it didn't really work and he dropped him as 10 two games later.

Deans had no stand out choices for the 10 jersey and had to choose between punting his Wallabies career on JOC (James O'Connor), a debutant or Cooper who hadn't worked out for him before.

If Beale hadn't had all his issues in the lead up to the series I think Deans was going to pick him as the first choice 10.

Deans chose JOC (James O'Connor) and lost but I don't really blame him for making that choice.

At the end of the day we'd have probably won the series if Lilo hadn't got knocked out in the first 30 seconds of the first test.

 

[Train Without a Station]

BH, Deans made a conservative call because he was afraid of losing his job, and ultimately it cost him his job.

To'omua had been playing well at 10 in 2012 and was playing well there in 2013. Extremely well compared to JOC (James O'Connor). If that could not bring somebody to a conclusion that To'omua was a better 10 than they have serious issues judging players objectively.

To'omua may not have played the house down, but it was not due to being a debutant, it was more to do with being in a struggling team, and him not being able to pull out miracle plays.

 

[Braveheart81]

BH, Deans made a conservative call because he was afraid of losing his job, and ultimately it cost him his job.

To'omua had been playing well at 10 in 2012 and was playing well there in 2013. Extremely well compared to JOC (James O'Connor). If that could not bring somebody to a conclusion that To'omua was a better 10 than they have serious issues judging players objectively.

To'omua may not have played the house down, but it was not due to being a debutant, it was more to do with being in a struggling team, and him not being able to pull out miracle plays.

If he'd picked To'omua and we'd lost the series do you really think he wouldn't have been heavily criticised for going into the Lions series with a debutant at 10?

I think Lilo getting knocked out 30 seconds into the first test and our scrum getting penalised off the park in the third test had far greater influence of the outcome of the series than the choice of 10.

 

[Train Without a Station]

He was the form 10. He played 10 as his first choice. I don't look back on the Bledisloe and consider playing To'omua over JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 to be a poor call.

 

[kiap]

Ha okay so I mightt have stretched the truth a bit there. Still, it's barely worth talking about, he'll have been signed to play wing and provide cover for 10, 12 and 15.

Yep. Let's see him on the wing/fullback for now.

It was a desperate roll of the dice by Deans to play JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 against the Lions, and the wrong move.

O'Connor probably still harbours ambitions of playing there, but he'd need to change his game away from the default setting of running it himself to providing the ball to other players. That ain't going to happen anytime soon.

In saying that, I don't think it would be impossible if he stays in the game for a long career, (which admittedly is doubtful).

 

[Braveheart81]

He was the form 10. He played 10 as his first choice. I don't look back on the Bledisloe and consider playing To'omua over JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 to be a poor call.

Of course not but it's apples and oranges comparing the last series of a coach under pressure in a once in 12 year event against a new coach starting only a couple of weeks before the Bledisloe where there was no realistic expectation that we were likely to win.

 

[en_force_er]

The best thing for everyone is for JOC (James O'Connor) to play fullback for the Reds and wing for the Wallabies in a CJ-type role (the 2nd fb is becoming very popular at professional level).

That's presuming he performs in Super rugby, which is he's not a silly prick off the field I honestly think he will.

 

[daz]

Is there any concern from the Reds faithful about having QC (Quade Cooper) and JOC (James O'Connor) together?

QC (Quade Cooper) has matured hugely and I hope it stays that way, but do you really want to test that?

What history has taught us is that any combination of JOC (James O'Connor), KB (Kurtley Beale) and QC (Quade Cooper) in the same team is potentially damaging, with JOC (James O'Connor) being the common denominator.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Personally I'm massively concerned. That being said, Khoder Nasser hasn't managed to lead Quade to being a complete selfish prick, so perhaps he has the strength of character to be his own man.

 

[I like to watch]

QC (Quade Cooper) will be in his ninth year as a pro footballer.
He is a member of the leadership group in the squad.
If he behaves poorly in 2015, it is down to him,no one else.

Edit: Remembering that when they were team mates previously,QC (Quade Cooper) was a disaffected member of that squad.
It is completely the opposite in the Reds camp, I believe.

 

[emuarse]

Gees, I hope JOC (James O'Connor) has signed, ' cause if he hasn't, there's been a lot of wasted time by a lot of scribes on this thread.

 

[Bowside]

Nice to see O'Connor making the decision he should have made as a 17 year old.

I personally think he is best on the wing nowadays. I use to think he was a centre but my views of centres in the modern game have changed.

 

[tranquility]

He will flourish for the Reds. The prodigal song returns home. QLD folk should straighten him out.

 

[Angus Fraser]

I could see QC (Quade Cooper) have by just fine with JOC (James O'Connor) in the squad. Buddy is down in Sydney, and Kurtley hasn't gone nuts yet.

The one thought I had, and this is a slightly cruel one, is that one thing all the guys (bar Placid) have in common is a pretty extensive injury history. Is it possible that the Queensland selectors are just trying to avoid going through a position specific spate of injuries over the next few years? They got hit pretty bad there this year.

I know that injuries have been all throughout the squad, but I think that might be why these guys in particular got the chop.

 

[Marcelo]

Tim Horan says JOC (James O'Connor) can make positive impact at Reds