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Reds 2015

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Train Without a Station

Guest
Exactly right. Coaches are primarily rated on their W/L ratio. Secondarily on what it is compared to what it was before they took over. Either way though, his time at the Reds has only hurt his reputation.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)

Parse

Bill Watson (15)
I think it's a great thing for Australian Rugby that Placid is off elsewhere - he may be exposed to a different kind of coaching and mentoring that takes him to a much higher level.

Yeah, it's a shame the Reds can't provide a coach who can successfully coach and mentor players.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
So this is what we've got quote on the front page of this thread as those players contracted for next year:

Ben Daley - 2013 2016
Will Genia - 2015
Liam Gill - 2013 2015
James Hanson - 2013 2015
James Horwill - 2013 Forever - legend.
Rob Simmons - 2013 2015
Aidan Toua - 2015
Beau Robinson - 2013 2015
Albert Anae - 2015
James Slipper - 2013 2015
David McDuling - 2014 2015
Curtis Browning - 2015
JJ Taulagi - 2014 2015

Perhaps it wasn't accurate but it has both Toua and Anae there as signed. Now Toua is heading to France, and there are rumours that Anae is apparently off somewhere too.

Which clearly means we've released them from their contract (unless we got these dates wrong) which confuses me a tad. We must have some might good signings to fill these holes because at the moment our team for next year is:

15 JJ Taulagi
14 tba
13 tba
12 tba
11 tba
10 tba
9 Will Genia
8 Curtis Browning
7 Liam Gill
6 Beau Robinson
5 James Horwill
4 Rob Simmons
3 James Slipper
2 James Hanson
1 Ben Daley

16 tba
17 tba
18 tba
19 David McDuling
20 tba
21 tba
22 tba
23 tba
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
What the fuck is going on?

At this stage I can't see RG lasting past next year, as the squad he has next year is going to be of a much lower quality.

If Genia and Cooper depart post 2015 to England/France, it won't be pretty.
 

Ignoto

Greg Davis (50)
With all these departures being made public, surely the QRU realizes that public moral is going down and actually need a win on the board (not on the field but a transfer win). Obviously bulk movement is happening next year but you can't expect the members to "trust" you Jim given Grahams track record.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Ah please, save the post apocalyptic talk until the seasons over and next seasons roster is released..


If the Reds finish with Karmichael Hunt and JOC (James O'Connor) for 2015 then losing Placid and Harris will be nothing more then collateral damage..

Regardless, the Reds still have their core playing group, as an avid supporter from the pre-2010 era, I can attest that losing the likes of Sharpe, Barnes etc is significantly more dire then losing Davies, Harris, Anae and Owen.

No chance that your lofty and typically patronising ('TOCC knows best what will happen to the Reds in 2014 and 2015') admonition will quieten my fire.

And the notion that JO'C and potentially KH are 'automagically' as you suggest going to compensate for multiple lost players is naive at best. JO'C's Super rugby performances in recent years were far from 'consistently outstanding' and KH, even though a player of obvious talent, has barely played any serious rugby at elite level for years. His ability to suddenly transform the fortunes of the 2015 Reds is highly speculative at this time.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
RH you make some valid points but it is getting tiring that every time a couple of players (mind you most fringe players at best - Placid has he even debuted?) using it as a justification to push your agenda.

First, I have zero obligation to please your desire for 'non-tiring' posts. That's not what internet fora are for unless you own your own and command all tonalities and styles from on high. Here, you do not.

And, second, to be blunt and in reciprocal gesture, I found your naive or wilful blindness earlier in the Reds' 2014 season re the obviously appalling quality of team coaching in virtually every aspect of the team's play and your related then defence of such repetitive mediocrity in the name of 'give RG a chance, it may not be his fault' more than tiring, it was plain wrong.

Third, my 'agenda' is solely to comment on what I truly see in the systemic Reds/QRU organisation and to relate that to the many, many '000s of $A I have paid for Reds Ruby and Platinum tickets, Reds Gala Balls, Reds Corporate Events etc etc and that I expect to gain reasonable value for money for.

Please remember, I am not a 'Monday morning quarterback' re RG and his entourage: I reacted with grave concern when he was very first appointed, in 2012 I predicted a very poor/dangerous outcome from it, and, so far and very sadly, I have been proven correct. And the pain and oddities of the RG reign continue, alongside the haughty QRU offering their 40,000 odd fans zero explanation or even any sense of concern that anything might be amiss with the whole situation and how it might be corrected

It's fucking well not good enough, and the elites that ask for our fan $ and general support should absolutely be held to account.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
No chance that your lofty and typically patronising ('TOCC knows best what will happen to the Reds in 2014 and 2015') admonition will quieten my fire.

RH you can disagree with my comment but there is absolutely no need for personal attacks...
 
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Train Without a Station

Guest
In hindsight it looks like naivety, but at the time we only have one other fair assessment to make on the guy's coaching career. In all fairness to the Force, they were pretty shit when he started, shit when he was there and shit again when he left. Within a reasonable period, of around 6 weeks, the conclusion had to be made that clearly one common denominator in this had been him.

Nobody disagreed that he hadn't showed that he was an absolutely outstanding candidate. But the quality of a candidate is really only relative to their competition, and who was actually out there and available? How many of them were interested in relocating to the SH? Names like Scott Johnson, Vern Cotter and Todd Louden can be thrown around but one has performed poorly, another has taken a national role which I doubt he would have moved to the Reds over whilst the other probably doesn't have the experience and credentials to say he is ready to take on a Super Rugby head coach role.

Graham had done well in assistant appointments, with his areas of specialty thriving. Much like it did in 2013 when he was managing defence. Now, he has been given a fair opportunity after showing as a promise, he clearly isn't capable of the task at the level required.

But when you're looking at the only other experience being at a perennial struggler which was very similar before and after he left and has greater recruitment difficulties than other teams, how much can you weight it's relevance?

Your comments come back to some transparent process as it is a government appointment or similar process. Company management recruitment is done this same way. it's at the detriment of the industry and shithouse practice, but that's life. Taking a stand on principles will only be at your own detriment. Candidates are spoken to whilst currently under contract and for this reason there needs to be secrecy maintained for both parties to save face in the event this discussions do not result in anything further.

To say this should have been paraded out in the public is naivety on your part. It could only have possibly limited the process to candidates who were openly on the market. How many of them are there ever really? Well to re-phrase, how many that haven't just been sacked are there ever really?

Obviously Graham has been a poor recruitment choice in management. But you cannot fault the process for that. If he had been able to perform, it would be lauded as a great coup to be able to snatch an under contract coach with minimal fuss, gossip and innuendo and bring him across. It hasn't worked out, they fucked up with their selection but that is where there errors end in this.

A lot of your comments, none of us can know what is definitely occurring, and seem to always lead to the most pessimistic view. Was the admitted decline in the Reds in certain aspects due to hubris? Or was 2011 just a bit of a perfect storm, where everything from recruitment, to individual skills each player brought, whilst planned and managed, it's high level of success somewhat of a fluke and the management team not completely sure how to replicate it?

Even the Reds have attempted to replicate what worked for them. The winning team was primarily home grown talent, sprinkled with strategic recruitment of players that were available at good value. They have continued this with players like Lachie Turner. Is it the Reds fault that there aren't 30+ year old number 8's like Radike Samo floating around being rejected by every other club, yet still have their peak ahead of them?
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Just one thing,they didn't need to employ someone a year in advance.
The number of potential applicants would have been much greater with a start date of this year,rather than last year.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Not really. Last year's applicants would have looked for their next appointment rather than wait a year.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Oh and on Graham, at least to me it appears that he is good technically. The Reds forwards for example appeared to exhibit greater skill in 2014 than they had previously, but he lacks the ability to manage the process. It appears there is a lack of discipline in the program, and it's not being driven by Richard Graham. The discipline of ensuring players work hard, do drills properly, etc.

Once again, this sort of thing only shows when they are handed the reigns. Some people are great hands on, but lack the management ability.
 
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