Reds 2014

[Ignoto]

Hands off buddy you boys didn't want him first time around he was on his way to Spain when we found him he is a wa boy now.

I don't recall anyone in Brisbane not wanting Gus when he was playing in the Premier League over here. He had some great performances and was attracting all the right attention. If anything his development was right on track and at that time we had a number of backrowers. So we simply didn't discard him, it was more, just at that specific time he got a contract, the Reds couldn't fit him in.

Finally I was disturbed to see on the Rugby Club that Genia believes his form is good. I think along the same lines as many others here and as Bob Dwyer has opined earlier this week, his passing is slow and laboured, his kicking (in particular box kicks) poorly executed in general and decision making very up and down.

I'd agree with Genia's own assessment, he has been playing good but not great. His kicking over the last two weeks has been fine (that box kick everyone keeps harping on about was a result of off side play). He still has plenty of work to do, but he hasn't been costing us games.

As stated by an earlier poster this can't be all laid at the feet of Graham. The lack of recruitment and effective development has been building since 2011 when players to replace Hynes, Ioane, Morahan, Samo and Higgers should have been brought on. It just hasn't happened.

Agreed completely with you. Losing both Digby and Morahan in one off season cost us dearly, two of our hardest running backs gone and replaced with greenhorns who physically aren't the same and Turner who's missed so many games with injuries in the last couple of years.

It appears the Reds have relied solely on the last two years to promote within their academy instead of looking elsewhere to fill in any holes. Which is great, but these academy players take a long time to develop and when every game is a must win game, you can't have too many of them being blooded in one season.

Say we hypothetically tank this season, will the ARU give us similar benefits the Force got this season with an increase in Marquee players?

 

[GaffaCHinO]

I don't recall anyone in Brisbane not wanting Gus when he was playing in the Premier League over here. He had some great performances and was attracting all the right attention. If anything his development was right on track and at that time we had a number of backrowers. So we simply didn't discard him, it was more, just at that specific time he got a contract, the Reds couldn't fit him in.


I'd agree with Genia's own assessment, he has been playing good but not great. His kicking over the last two weeks has been fine (that box kick everyone keeps harping on about was a result of off side play). He still has plenty of work to do, but he hasn't been costing us games.




Agreed completely with you. Losing both Digby and Morahan in one off season cost us dearly, two of our hardest running backs gone and replaced with greenhorns who physically aren't the same and Turner who's missed so many games with injuries in the last couple of years.

It appears the Reds have relied solely on the last two years to promote within their academy instead of looking elsewhere to fill in any holes. Which is great, but these academy players take a long time to develop and when every game is a must win game, you can't have too many of them being blooded in one season.

Say we hypothetically tank this season, will the ARU give us similar benefits the Force got this season with an increase in Marquee players?

If his development was right on track and was attracting all the right attention why was he going to Spain to play club rugby on exchange? Doesn't sound like someone who was on the radar with much hope of getting a gig


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[Forcefield]

A few weeks ago now I posted either in this thread or a game thread that I thought the Reds were a deteriorating side not only because of current coaching standards, not just from the head coach, but also because of a lack of forward planning. That post received a fair bit of sarcastic comment, but a few weeks on and we are seeing a bit of genuine critique and questioning of the results and more importantly the manner in how they are being achieved.

It's understandable though. Force fans were as defensive of Richard Graham after the 2012 Sydney kick-a-thon as they are acidic toward him now. You back your coach, because like it or lump it he is your coach and maybe everyone else has it all wrong.

 

[TOCC]

A few weeks ago now I posted either in this thread or a game thread that I thought the Reds were a deteriorating side not only because of current coaching standards, not just from the head coach, but also because of a lack of forward planning. That post received a fair bit of sarcastic comment, but a few weeks on and we are seeing a bit of genuine critique and questioning of the results and more importantly the manner in how they are being achieved.
.

I actually disagree Gnostic, everyone can plan ahead but at the end of the day some plans simply fail to materialise due to any number of variable's.

In the back row losing Jarrod Butler to the Brumbies is an example of this, the guy was getting regular game time in 2013 subbing with Shatz and Quirk, he would have been a starting figure in 2014 but a better offer was presented to him. On top of that you have guys like McDuling, who by age and physicality should have been the transition blindside flanker following Higgers, but due to injuries his career has been derailed.

In the outside backs Digby Ioane was still contracted for another 12months but departed early, Morahan had been slowly racking up experience and developing his game but received a better offer. Aidan Toua is another whose potential is obvious and has been in the system for a number of years but but has failed to materialise into the standard required...

I really can't comprehend the statement that forward planning is lacking when its evident guys like CFS and Browning have a big future at the Reds and great lengths were made to retain them potentially at the expense of a more experienced player. If anything, the forward planning is at fault for looking too far ahead.

 

[SouthernX]

If his development was right on track and was attracting all the right attention why was he going to Spain to play club rugby on exchange? Doesn't sound like someone who was on the radar with much hope of getting a gig


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I don't know where you got this Spain exchange from?

He was playing Cub Rugby at Wests. His season was cut short a few weeks so he could go tour with the Force in Samoa.

He got a 1 year EPS contract with the Force & played his way well enough into starting contention. When his 1 year EPS deal was done he was rumoured to be talking to Link but Ewen already had 30 contracted Reds players on the book (as per the stupid ARU rule to prop up non rugby-mad playing state franchises like WA) & was only offered a Extended Playing Squad contract with the Reds.

He was wise to go back the 2nd year to Perth where he could be offered a full time contact.

 

[Forcefield]

Say we hypothetically tank this season, will the ARU give us similar benefits the Force got this season with an increase in Marquee players?

If you make a reasonable application for it, then why not. I guess it depends on what you intend to do with it. I reckon Ed O'Donoghue is a bit of a waste of a marquee spot. If they aren't regularly starting, go with a future Australian eligible development player instead. But by all means the Reds should look into a big, powerful backrower (maybe from Argentina or someone like Potgeiter).

You guys seem to produce a lot of hard working, grunty backrowers but there doesn't look like anyone on the horizon like Samo and Palu. You haven't made many wrecking ball locks for a while either.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

It was a lot Easier to find when there wasn't pages of articles with his name in them on google but there is a exchange rugby page that he was on looking for a club to play for in Spain in 2012 and it was a bit of a joke how he was looking to go to Spain but ended up on Perth.


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[something]

There is just a general negative feel about the Reds right now. Moral could be low or whatever it is there is just something wrong. On paper we have a pretty good team, albiet missing one or two critical player types in both forwards and backs, but we just aren't winning the 50-50's or even looking to win actually.

 

[No4918]

If you make a reasonable application for it, then why not. I guess it depends on what you intend to do with it. I reckon Ed O'Donoghue is a bit of a waste of a marquee spot. If they aren't regularly starting, go with a future Australian eligible development player instead. But by all means the Reds should look into a big, powerful backrower (maybe from Argentina or someone like Potgeiter).

You guys seem to produce a lot of hard working, grunty backrowers but there doesn't look like anyone on the horizon like Samo and Palu. You haven't made many wrecking ball locks for a while either.

You make it sound like there are 5 Palu's running around waiting to be discovered. It is not so easy to produce guys like this. We produced the next best thing to Palu in Higgers and could not retain him. Samo was basically unwanted when Link offered him a gig. Not sure anyone has produced a wrecking ball lock, Horwill would easily be the closest of the last 5 years and Skelton is the only one on the horizon.

You are expecting an awful lot of NSW/QLD to develop guys for you to poach while waiting for a turn.

 

[Forcefield]

I didn't say there were 5 Palu's running around and neither did I say I expected anything of you. I just said that this was the problem.

When was the last time we (i.e. the Force) "poached" a top line backrower or lock from either the Waratahs or the Reds? Someone you had put meaningful development into? Don't try to count McMeniman in that. At U20 level we just haven't seen that type of player for a while out of Queensland. That is not to talk down the other contributions that Queensland makes but there is a need which is currently not being addressed locally.

Try something different- think outside the box. Look into bringing someone back. Chisholm or Kimlin maybe. Dean Mumm? How is Leroy Houston doing at Bath? Is Jone Tawake still playing? NSW were proactive- they saw a need and recruited Potgeiter.

 

[tigerland12]

Try something different- think outside the box. Look into bringing someone back. Chisholm or Kimlin maybe. Dean Mumm? How is Leroy Houston doing at Bath? Is Jone Tawake still playing? NSW were proactive- they saw a need and recruited Potgeiter.

Yep Mumm and Houston will solve all our problems......

 

[Forcefield]

With an attitude like that, of course they won't. I always thought Mumm was a pretty good player at Super Rugby level. Like Chisholm, better suited to Super Rugby than Tests. Leroy Houston may not have been much when he was last at the Reds, but that was a couple of years ago and who knows what he has developed into. The potential is there.

Jayden Hayward was practically unwanted in New Zealand. He has probably been our best performing back after Mathewson. Sometimes a different environment and a bit of different experience can breath life into a player. There are opportunities out there. Just look at Scott Fardy's meteoric rise. But with an attitude like that, you'll get fuck all.

 

[Ignoto]

If we're looking overseas for Australian players I'd rather we look to the likes of Kimlin and not Mumm or Chisholm. He'll even Timani would be a better choice than them.

 

[tranquility]

I concede that the Force beat us last night, and were deserved winners. However it is pretty righteous to start telling us how to run our club. I think you will find that QLD is going through some growing pains as we transition a new crop of home grown players, but I do not think our problems are terminal and I have great faith success is not too far over the horizon.

One thing I have learned from living in Melbourne is the loyal support of your footy side is about sticking tough, and showing up every week, whether you are winning or not. Enjoy the good times and weather the bad.

We are one of the best talent sectors in world rugby, and we have the passion and supporter base to support this. Have faith.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't recall anyone in Brisbane not wanting Gus when he was playing in the Premier League over here. He had some great performances and was attracting all the right attention. If anything his development was right on track and at that time we had a number of backrowers. So we simply didn't discard him, it was more, just at that specific time he got a contract, the Reds couldn't fit him in.


I'd agree with Genia's own assessment, he has been playing good but not great. His kicking over the last two weeks has been fine (that box kick everyone keeps harping on about was a result of off side play). He still has plenty of work to do, but he hasn't been costing us games.




Agreed completely with you. Losing both Digby and Morahan in one off season cost us dearly, two of our hardest running backs gone and replaced with greenhorns who physically aren't the same and Turner who's missed so many games with injuries in the last couple of years.

It appears the Reds have relied solely on the last two years to promote within their academy instead of looking elsewhere to fill in any holes. Which is great, but these academy players take a long time to develop and when every game is a must win game, you can't have too many of them being blooded in one season.

Say we hypothetically tank this season, will the ARU give us similar benefits the Force got this season with an increase in Marquee players?

Did the Brumbies get an increase in the number of marquee players after their inept season 2011? No. Might have to get the coaching situation sorted rather than look to the ARU for assistance.

 

[qwerty51]

The Reds backrowers have workrate, tackling zeal, versatility and body-on-the-line effort at the breakdown but they just don’t make the tackle-splitting runs that change a game.
The stats are damning.
Reds backrowers Ed Quirk and Jake Schatz have not made a linebreak in seven matches and shed just four tackles between them, according to Fox Sports Stats.
Compare that with the bullocking menace of Western Force No.8 Ben McCalman or Melbourne Rebels backrower Scott Higginbotham, the Red who got away.
McCalman bulked up by 5kg to build the authority in his game that had Force coach Michael Foley tagging him “the best No.8 in the country” at Suncorp Stadium last Saturday night.


He poured 14 big-hearted runs into that 32-29 upset of the Reds. He lifted his season tally of linebreaks to six, tackle busts to 13 and key tries to three and he’s played two games fewer than the Reds pair.
The harsh reality for the faltering Reds is that they are constantly playing under stress because they no longer have gamebreakers, outside their champion halves, to demolish rivals.
The lack of line-crunching impact from the backrow is emblematic of the issue. Using a “Made in Queensland’’ model for recruiting is noble but there has been no creativity in filling the void left by departing backrow forces Higginbotham and Radike Samo over the past two years.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/...-from-backrowers/story-fndpu22x-1226876135136

Well everyone's been saying this. I would go after an Argentinean backrower, Reds should be watching the u20s very closely and I think it's Quirk that has to go rather than Schatz.

 

[Forcefield]

@ Tranquility- I don't mean to come off as being righteous. I actually think the Force has the same problem. Too many backrowers in the same mould. Second rowers who are big on work rate and low on impact. Outside of Force v Reds games, I want you guys to tear oppositions apart. This is partly because you are about the only financially successful Australian Super franchise at the moment. The other part is that you play an exciting running game and I'd like to see teams that do this reap the rewards. A third part is that you aren't NSW.

It was purely an observation, do with it what you will.

 

[Tangawizi]

Bring back the "We are Red" bloke.

Brisbane crowds seem to need to be told when to cheer for their team, especially the Stadium Members.

 

[Parse]

Normally I don't say much, but I have to say one thing.

The coaching staff have to take the majority of the blame (and perhaps entire team management is also culpable).

The Reds still only have 29 contracted players and are apparently the only franchise that has money in Australia. It seems totally negligent to me that when faced with a situation of 'lacking a good forward' and now with the multiple injuries they still haven't chosen to contract someone to fill that spot.

I could discuss current players form, but I won't, other then to say I think QC (Quade Cooper) is basically carrying the team most of the time, without his form the Reds would be on the end of some humiliating hidings.

 

[Tomikin]

If we're looking overseas for Australian players I'd rather we look to the likes of Kimlin and not Mumm or Chisholm. He'll even Timani would be a better choice than them.

Kimlin said he would only play for the Brumbies but probably saw he wouldnt make the world cup... so stayed in France making money with some mates..

I think Noodles was as good as Fardy if not better last year and would have got the nod ahead of him for the 6 jumper if not injured. ..

But Noodles he could fall into a barrel of boobs and come out sucking his thumb..

Ps I think every team needs an angry ranga

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