Reds 2014

[USARugger]

BOD would be too good be he has been really touch and go with injuries this past year and is getting quite old - wouldn't be cheap either. Who knows though. He sure as hell isn't going to NZ is for sure.

#SamGreene2014

 

[RedsHappy]

I sadly hold the same view as you RedsHappy. It really, and I mean REALLY, worries me that we haven't really got any key new signings. We've re-signed some key players but have lost a few also. We need to grow and improve.

We've shown as a team and an organisation that we can grow, we can adapt, we can be successful. We have overcome almost all of the hurdles that once stood in our way bar one I feel. We still don't seem to be able to attract and sign key players to our franchise. Either we aren't even trying or they don't want to come. Neither of these scenarios sit well with me at all.

Re the highlighted part - for the period late 2009 to July 2011, I totally agree!

For the subsequent periods - even though we had legitimate major injury explanations in 2012 - not so much. The subtleties of the Reds' leadership language from early 2012 tended to be more inclined to how good we were and how we'd be building dynasties and greatness calling and so forth. That language was revealing in its tone - there was little reference to essential improvement and competitive realignment and changes required to stay ahead (as is the case with any enterprise that wants to be champs more than once). (Note btw how the Chiefs 2013 tone has been more restrained and less grandiose, and they've repeated 2012's status to date.)

I suspect Scoey that, re new signings etc, it's more the case of 'not trying' than 'they don't want to come'. The Reds' total team and management environment plainly has much to offer new or established players.

But into this mix must go the changing inclinations of Link from early 2012 to early 2013, and the poor record of RG's recruitment and player development in his 2010-2012 period with the Force. I speculate, but my sense is that RG is currently highly risk-averse in his transition from Link and has concluded that the 'solely from within' model of moving into 2014 will somehow serve him better; it may be reckless timidity and a lack of required testicular fortitude as he lacks as yet real self-confidence as head coach and feared upsetting existing players, or it may prove merited. My view is that we are clearly not adapting and growing our required talent base as fast as are our leading S15 competitors, and we'll likely pay the price next year (as I think we are somewhat this year for a lack of team renovation from 2011 into 2012/early 2013).

 

[Sully]

I'm concerned about next years recruitment as well but that doesn't mean that a few of those young players won't grow into great players. We can only hope.

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[Tomikin]

Im a Brumbies fan, but someone like Cummins for you guys to replace Digby might have been good, and in Link was still in Charge I would have said heaven forbid JOC (James O'Connor) would have fitted a great buy for you. But RG's and his past might have put it passed him.

As much trouble as he has been, JOC (James O'Connor) probably is copping a bit of that stick from being made 10 for the Lions series by Robbie more then anything.

A steady hand like Jake White or Link probably would have sorted him out but Brumbies are full and Links not at the Reds now

 

[Scoey]

For sure Sully! We have the makings of some great players in the young 'uns in the squad. I just wonder how their development could be enhanced with the intelligent addition of some experienced new players. Going back to the BOD example; as unlikely as it is, having a player like him amongst the team would certainly accelerate the rate of realisation of potential in the young players. Their ultimate potential may even be increased over what they could achieve without that exposure.

 

[Scoey]

Im a Brumbies fan, but someone like Cummins for you guys to replace Digby might have been good, and in Link was still in Charge I would have said heaven forbid JOC (James O'Connor) would have fitted a great buy for you. But RG's and his past might have put it passed him.

As much trouble as he has been, JOC (James O'Connor) probably is copping a bit of that stick from being made 10 for the Lions series by Robbie more then anything.

A steady hand like Jake White or Link probably would have sorted him out but Brumbies are full and Links not at the Reds now

I agree with pretty much all of that with one exception. JOC (James O'Connor) was selected to play 10 v the Lions but he was never 'made' to play there. That makes him sound like a bit of a victim of sorts. He has been spruiking his desire to play 10 ever since he cracked the pro arena. He's one helluva a drummer, it's just a shame he wants to be the lead singer and front man.

 

[p.Tah]

He's one helluva a drummer, it's just a shame he wants to be the lead singer and front man.

You've nailed it. JOC (James O'Connor) is Phil Collins!

 

[liquor box]

For sure Sully! We have the makings of some great players in the young 'uns in the squad. I just wonder how their development could be enhanced with the intelligent addition of some experienced new players. Going back to the BOD example; as unlikely as it is, having a player like him amongst the team would certainly accelerate the rate of realisation of potential in the young players. Their ultimate potential may even be increased over what they could achieve without that exposure.

I think that we should look at recruiting a former great player near the end of their career that is looking to get into coaching eventually. Imagine getting BOD on a 2 year contract as a player and then a 2 year assistant coach role, it would allow you to backend the contract to the coaching role so as not to overspend your cap and let him come in and either mentor the young kids he will have to coach or to go out an pick some youngsters from club or school to work with. On top of that you get a great player that should still give an equal or better performance than Anthony Faiingaa or Mike Harris.

I think the Reds missed an opportunity to do this when Brad Thorn was last available.

 

[Tomikin]

I agree with pretty much all of that with one exception. JOC (James O'Connor) was selected to play 10 v the Lions but he was never 'made' to play there. That makes him sound like a bit of a victim of sorts. He has been spruiking his desire to play 10 ever since he cracked the pro arena. He's one helluva a drummer, it's just a shame he wants to be the lead singer and front man.

Good Point, But he got his wish and Im sure he was happy with it etc, but alot of people (Not me I hoped he would kick arse) thought he couldnt run the backline and was a better winger. In the end coaches pick teams .. not players.. but its both there fault. and he should have been arsed for being a brat..

It was a bit of last man standing I guess, with QC (Quade Cooper) and Deans issue, To'omua\Foley being inexperienced, Beale having drinking issues, Barnes not playing at all let alone fit enough for Lions.. Lio playing at 12 not 10 and no experience.

JOC (James O'Connor) was probably the only one left 20/20 is in hind sight wonderful

 

[something]

I dont really want this to be the case, but more and more are we needing an x-factor player for the reds 2014 campaign... and o'connor would be going cheap. Maybe quade could help him pull his head in as he has this year, but potentially oconnor could drag him down....

its so hard because he is so good but such a knob! i fear the reds backline will just get smashed next year if we dont get a few good signings..

 

[Pusser]

I dont really want this to be the case, but more and more are we needing an x-factor player for the reds 2014 campaign. and o'connor would be going cheap. Maybe quade could help him pull his head in as he has this year, but potentially oconnor could drag him down..

its so hard because he is so good but such a knob! i fear the reds backline will just get smashed next year if we dont get a few good signings..

You would have to be crazy to put any of the 3 amigos in the same team. Except for Beal's punch up in SA nearly every incident has involved two of them.


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[thierry dusautoir]

Too right Scoey.

With team improvements and renovations taking place in many strong S15 teams and, notably, in some that haven't been great but are going to be much better in 2014, the Reds need to act similarly in crucial backs positions where we are resting on ever-more-distant laurels.

I was alarmed when IIRC Graham said we only had one available team slot to fill for 2014. If so, we seem to be implying that the likes of Harris, Lucas, A Fainga'a, Toua and currently out of form CFS, Shipps and Taps will be more than adequate to compete against the 2014 Tahs, Brumbies, Chiefs, etc.

If this is the backs scenario we are happy to proceed into 2014 with, I already have real concerns that we won't hit the top 6 come July of that year.

I took graham statements as that maybe they will promote from within via the reds college

 

[Ruggo]

I get the impression the Reds are looking to maintain combinations and not looking at high profile signings so they have the coin to account for the rising market value of the young players they have.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I get the impression the Reds are looking to maintain combinations and not looking at high profile signings so they have the coin to account for the rising market value of the young players they have.

Exactly. For every decent high profile signing, there's one like the Tahs letting Mowen go to sign Elsom.

When was our last real big name new signing? Braid?

 

[No4918]

Define high profile? Mogg, Cummins and Ryan aren't exactly high profile and would be very welcome.

 

[James Buchanan]

Define high profile? Mogg, Cummins and Ryan aren't exactly high profile and would be very welcome.

Mogg and Cummins are fairly high profile to me. Both have looked very good playing for the Wallabies, I don't know how much higher profile you can get than that.

 

[Scoey]

I'm not sure 'high profile' is the right term to use but it's the first that generally comes to mind. What I think would be valuable is someone that has runs on the board. I'm talking test caps, more than a handful. Someone who has played finals footy maybe? Probably late twenties, to balance out the young 'uns; to provide an additional senior figure etc. A good role model and team man.

Who is this mythical person? Buggered if I know. I floated Brian O'Driscoll above. He's extremely unlikely but you get the drift I'm sure. Someone else mentioned Brad Thorn of a few years ago. Same.

Thinking within the country, and I have no idea about contracts or whatever, just trying to give examples of the 'types' of player we could look to recruit:

• Stephen Moore
• Benn Robinson
• Adam Ashley-Cooper
• David Pocock

 

[Braveheart81]

The problem the Reds have with recruiting is that most of their fans think that Wallabies who play for other states are generally crap players who shouldn't be in the Wallabies.

If they play for NSW then they aren't even good enough to be playing Super Rugby.

 

[Scoey]

The problem the Reds have with recruiting is that most of their fans think that Wallabies who play for other states are generally crap players who shouldn't be in the Wallabies.

If they play for NSW then they aren't even good enough to be playing Super Rugby.

I take it that that is tongue in cheek BH but I'll comment anyway. The Reds fans attitudes would have little to do with the recruitment process and even if they did I don't think that is an accurate opinion of the majority of Reds fans attitudes.

There's plenty of noise about the amount of Tahs players (for example) being picked for the Wallabies but this is not necessarily a reflection on the players, moreso the organisation they came from.

Current Wallabies squad members from the Tahs (from Wikipedia ):
Robinson
Kepu
Douglas
Dennis
Hooper
Palu
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Horne
Barnes
Folau

Whilst not all of them fit my description above, I would gladly have any of those players in a Reds jersey if they wanted to come. (With the possible exception of Horne. Oh, maybe even him!) All good to great players.

 

[Braveheart81]

It was only minorly tongue in cheek.

I was definitely not referring to you but there are definitely a lot of Reds fans who don't rate most of those players and would think that recruiting any of them was a waste of money. Looking at the comments, particularly on articles on the front page of this site gives plenty of ammunition to support this thought.

You really don't think there would be a lot of reactions similar to the comments below if one of these players were recruited by the Reds?

Robinson: fat, unfit, rubbish around the field. Greg Holmes is better.
Kepu: lazy, unfit, rubbish around the field.
Douglas: lazy, overrated, crap against the Lions, Simmons is better.
Dennis: rubbish. Quirk is much better. Worst Wallaby ever.
Hooper: Gill is twice as good as him.
Palu: soft, always injured, does nothing. Schatz is better.
Horne: can't/doesn't pass, can't beat a player, crap when he played for the Wallabies two-three years ago and I haven't watched him since.
Barnes: always injured, always kicks, absolute rubbish.

I've left out AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Folau because I think there wouldn't be much outrage over them.