RoffsChoice
Jim Lenehan (48)
McCalman, Dennis and Mowen may well be ranked above him already, and now they stand out even further.
Reds 2013
- Thread starter MrTimms
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gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
http://www.espnscrum.com/super-rugby-2013/rugby/match/170150.html
http://www.espnscrum.com/super-rugby-2013/rugby/match/170145.html
Just watching the rugby club thing, and in Kafe's segment he indicated that the reds had 49 (or something stupidly high) missed tackles so fat this year. I thought our defensive game against the brumbies was pretty good atually whilst watching it, and the (first half at least) against the tahs was pretty solid also.
Just checking the espn scrum stats, I am counting up only 7 for the brumbies and 19 against the tahs (use the team stats rather than the summary data).
Against the Brumbies, I would imagine the numbers to be pretty low from both teams tbh as it was pretty brutal defence by both teams.
Against the tahs in the first half, I also thought the reds defended pretty well, so would have thought that was low, but the second half definitely would have a higher number. Not sure I think the summary data is necessarily correct given 31 in one game is ridiculously high - the reds only missed 28 tackles against the bulls when they lost 61-8.
I really don't think what Kafe said is accurate (about the numbers of tackles - dunno about the lack of rushing up thing, maybe that is correct) which is surprsing as I generally find his stuff to be pretty accurate.
What do some of you guys think?
http://www.espnscrum.com/super-rugby-2013/rugby/match/170145.html
Just watching the rugby club thing, and in Kafe's segment he indicated that the reds had 49 (or something stupidly high) missed tackles so fat this year. I thought our defensive game against the brumbies was pretty good atually whilst watching it, and the (first half at least) against the tahs was pretty solid also.
Just checking the espn scrum stats, I am counting up only 7 for the brumbies and 19 against the tahs (use the team stats rather than the summary data).
Against the Brumbies, I would imagine the numbers to be pretty low from both teams tbh as it was pretty brutal defence by both teams.
Against the tahs in the first half, I also thought the reds defended pretty well, so would have thought that was low, but the second half definitely would have a higher number. Not sure I think the summary data is necessarily correct given 31 in one game is ridiculously high - the reds only missed 28 tackles against the bulls when they lost 61-8.
I really don't think what Kafe said is accurate (about the numbers of tackles - dunno about the lack of rushing up thing, maybe that is correct) which is surprsing as I generally find his stuff to be pretty accurate.
What do some of you guys think?
gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
Nah, he only mentioned the reds were sliding in defence instead of rushing up.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
This was really, really noticeable against the Tahs in the second half actually. I still have to watch the game again but on my original watching I was following CFS for most of the game (trying to improve my own) and there were a couple of tackles he made in the 2nd half where the Reds were just sliding instead of coming up and he would make the tackle from the side right about on the gain line. It definitely had my heart fluttering a couple of times but his acceleration was handy in closing the gaps before they got behind the line, even then it was just barely happening though.
The biggest problem with tackle stats in Rugby is that the terms "missed tackle" can mean two different things to two different people.
redstragic
Alan Cameron (40)
Yeah, i get confused. Often the first guy in bounces off but slows down the ball carrier enough for the 2 or three that hit him next. Is that a missed tackle?
gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
What happens if two men go in for the tackle at the same time and miss?
Is that one missed tackle (since the ball carrier is only one guy who technically can only get tackled once at any given moment), or is it two missed tackles (one for each of the two tacklers who missed)?
*edit* back on topic. Reds to have a good game tonight and the weather to hold off for just one more day
Is that one missed tackle (since the ball carrier is only one guy who technically can only get tackled once at any given moment), or is it two missed tackles (one for each of the two tacklers who missed)?
*edit* back on topic. Reds to have a good game tonight and the weather to hold off for just one more day
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
This is a link to a topic I posted on the subject of stats which may help. I certainly gained some knowledge from it.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/index.php?threads/Interpreting"Stats".11551/#post-399831
NB I have never posted a link from Tapatalk so apologies if it doesn't work. I'll fix it once I get into the office! ;-)
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/index.php?threads/Interpreting"Stats".11551/#post-399831
NB I have never posted a link from Tapatalk so apologies if it doesn't work. I'll fix it once I get into the office! ;-)
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Its very easy tio be critical of reds AFTER the event - maybe kafe should coach the Wallabies !!!!!!!!!! Shit we couldn't lose - we certainly would NEVER have a try scored against us
BDA
Jim Lenehan (48)
Given that it's Robbie Deans' team, who knows how they're ranked.
Deans probably ranks the no.6 talent in the following order:-
1. Dennis
2. McCalman
3. Higgers
4. Brown
5. Dean Mumm
6. Maafu
7. Wendall Sailor
8. Greg Growden
...
...
...
..
..
102. Mowen
On a serious note It's good that we've got a number of guys pushing this year for the no.6 spot:
Currently I'd rank them as follows:-
1. Mowen
2. McCalmun
3. Dennis
4. Higgers
5. Kimlin
6. Quirk
I think Mowen is a red hot chance this year. Last year he was unlucky not to make Wallaby squads but there was no unfairness that he was picked behind Higginbotham and Dennis. Both had every right to be there.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Kept hearing mumblings about his mobility last year but it looks like he's been getting around the park fine so far in the Super XV this year. The Wallabies desperately need a #6 that can jump in the line out, play tight, and bend the line (who isn't 10,000 in rugby years and who isn't constantly injured). Desperately.
Seriously where is our Willem Alberts hiding!?
Exactly, I'm going to dig through the piece BDA linked over the weekend when I have some time. My question is, is there even any standard metric for what constitutes a "missed" tackle? This could sway the numbers enormously in either direction.
For example, my old coach would consider any time I'm not digging a shoulder into a sternum as a "missed" tackle at #13 but if our #10 barely managed to bring a loose forward down around his ankles that would have been an admirable effort and a completed tackle.
BDA
Jim Lenehan (48)
Yes I would agree with all of that.
Dennis, Higgers and Mowen all do these things well at Super Rugby level. Higgers and Dennis both struggled to transfer that to test rugby straight away but have been getting better. Dennis in particular played his best tests on the EOYT.
The main thing for all of them is converting their Super Rugby physicality into making a similar impact at test level. This mainly refers to the ability to bend the line. All three are good in the lineout.
Higgers showed he is able to play a decent tight game when required. He will need to do that more this season at the Rebels so hopefully he can show he is still a good option for the Wallabies when not playing fast and loose in Super Rugby.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Yeah this has pretty much echoed my thoughts on all three players. The constant injury remark was a poke at Palu for already going down in Super Rugby this year. This is how I see it:
Mowen - does all of these things very well at Super Rugby level, hopefully this can translate to the test arena.
Dennis - can jump well, does a good job grafting in tight but has some serious issues physically imposing himself and not becoming a little anonymous at test level
Higgers - possibly the best jumper of the three but has got to seriously raise the level of his tight game to ever be considered for Wallaby selection again, also has serious issues bending the line unless he's running onto the ball from a pretty good distance and is also a penalty liability on top of all this
BDA
Jim Lenehan (48)
I actually think McCalman may well be considered on par with these three for the 6 jerset. At the world cup he was our back-up 6, 7, 8. I think playing 7 was too much of a stretch for Ben, and he was ok at 8, but doesnt quite have the physical impact of a Palu or Samo. But he's got a great work rate, plays tight, generally gets over the advantage line and is a good line-out option. I could see him figuring in the Lions series if he has a good season; most likely as a bench option.
MMM is another guy who represents a potentially gold bench option. He is a genuine Lock/no.6. Deans has been looking for someone to fill that role but as yet to no avail.
I realised that.
Palu is currently fit though. What are you talking about in relation to this season?
As I said previously, Dennis played his best tests yet on the Spring Tour. At least he has been making solid improvement at test level and worked his way into being physically imposing on the field. He definitely finished last year going in the right direction.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
I completely agree with you about the Spring Tour and Dennis' improvement but he still doesn't touch the physicality of Palu/Samo and definitely not even within the same atmosphere as Kaino/Vito. It's just a shame because as you said he's improved in every other department. We are really, really just hurting for a wrecking ball at 6/8 since Samo is edging towards his expiration date (or he's a cyborg) and Palu is an injury lottery. Not ripping on Dennis, or any of the other players mentioned. It's just frustrating when you have so many players who display a handful of the qualities you want but are just missing one or two things. Then again though, that is what makes a world class player well, 'world class'.
This is the Reds thread though so if you're interested in talking Wallabies loosies I'd be more than happy to do it via pm so we don't derail this thread anymore than we have!
What does everyone think of the CFS/Conrad Smith match up this weekend?
I think Conrad will be able to shut CFS down pretty well. He is such a great defender.
The big issue for the Canes will be how Taylor and Savea play. If Taylor in particular can get involved I think Smith will be able to make CFS's life a nightmare.
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