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Reds 2013

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Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
In addition to Redshappy's post above :-


The Brumbies, Force and Rebels actively and thoughtfully recruited to compliment their sides from the previous year. They have improved in areas they were previously deficient by bringing in individuals with talents in those areas. The Tahs did not largely because the squad was set before Chieka was appointed IMO. Who have the Reds developed or recruited in the last 12 months who is now blossoming into a reliable or even top line player. Contrast with the Brumbies especially, who have developed Mogg, Tomane, Kudriani, Sio, Kimlin, Auleua, Speight, Coleman etc etc etc. These were players that nobody else expressed much interest in and now they would be head hunted. The Reds and the Tahs rely totally on yesterday's heroes to play the game for them. Hence we have a situation that Horwill remains injured, Samo is getting older, Van has retired, and Simmons is as erratic as ever and we have situation of a very compromised second row. That is just one/two position. Where was the planning to cover this? Surely the experience of seeing Pyle, Wykes, Carter, Fardy, Jones shows that there are players who can step up with the right mentoring and systems. The Reds have been infected with Robbie Deans type thinking that only big names can lift a side like the special treatment of Elsom and Vickerman. I would argue that this is bad for morale and culture as those people end up being seen as privileged and in many cases will behave that way. The whole Tahs forward pack that has tasted Wallaby honours can be used as examples of this and to me the lack of application by those senior players in that pack speaks volumes about cultures of entitlement.
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
I wouldn't say recruitment/development is the problem.
The Reds have one of the youngest squads in the competition and have developed some very good young players in the past 12-18 months. Gill, Tapuai, Shatz, Quirk, Feaui-Sautia, Lance, Shipperely have all been developed along the same timeline as those Brumbies players you have mentioned.

I do agree however in regards to the second row stocks. We are just lucky Ed O'Donoghue was picked up at the last minute. We really should have thrown all that we could at Hugh McMennimen.

There are clearly some problems, but I don't think it is a reliance on the "players of the past". The only players that fall into that category who are not performing are Cooper, Simmons and S.Fainga'a in my opinion.

Nothing is clicking at the moment that's all.
 

suckerforred

Chilla Wilson (44)
Jets, Scoey & Hugh Jarse - You and I are going to differ on that. A red would not have surprised me. But I am tough on diliberate forceful contact to the head.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
Who have the Reds developed or recruited in the last 12 months who is now blossoming into a reliable or even top line player.

Quirk, Gill & Schatz up front and F'Sautia in the backs are my initial answers to this question.

I think the area that we are most deficient in this season in the absence of Genia & Horwill is leadership. But to further yours (and RedsHappy's) point, our backrow has been close to the top performing three players for us each week and these guys are the types of guys you are saying that the Brumbies have developed across the park.

The boys didn't win pretty in any of their games this season but it was only on the weekend that they looked a bit rudderless or lacking in direction. Prior to that they looked to be building nicely, albeit a little slowly. Just the same way that if we come out and put 50 points on someone in the next few weeks we wouldn't be all of a sudden finals contenders, the result on the weekend does not mean that all is lost.

One game does not a season make.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I agree with what you are saying Scoey, except that this year the Reds unlike in seasons past from my subjective viewing appear to be falling off more tackles and in doing so conceding far more territory than in seasons past under Link, while at the same time making far more mistakes in possession. If somebody comes along with empirical evidence to refute my subjective view fine, I will reassess and examine such evidence.

Those you named are without a shadow of a doubt all excelling this year, but there are glaring holes elsewhere and that is where sides like the Rebels and Force have developed, not to mention the Brumbies.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
When it comes to penalties for dangerous or foul play, no penalties really surprise me either suckerforred given the somewhat spasmodic nature of penalties handed out the last few seasons! ;)

That being said, I think our point of difference is probably (and usually is in these types of incidents) intent. I think that Quirk meant to try and put a shot on the Force player but not a shoulder. Quirk had him lined up and the Force player 'bobbled' the ball. At the last moment the Force player changed direction and shape to re-catch the ball and this changed where Quirk was going to hit (or maybe miss) him. Quick adjusted and the result was what it was. It looked messy but I don't think that should come into it. I feel that he attempted to use his arms but I accept that others will hold a different opinion. It's one of those ones that it is hard to argue against the yellow but had it only been given a penalty then it would've been hard to argue for a yellow such is the 50/50 nature of it. Similar I think to the Tom Carter/Higginbotham tackle a couple of weeks ago.

A good example is the hit on the Reds player by the Force player that resulted in the fumble and Charles kicking the ball through just prior to the Quirk tackle. There was no arms in that tackle either but it didn't get a second look.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Jets, Scoey & Hugh Jarse - You and I are going to differ on that. A red would not have surprised me. But I am tough on diliberate forceful contact to the head.

I don't like it any more than you, and similarly a red card on the night would not have surprised me either. However the match reviewers and judiciaries have been a little inconsistent recently based on the limited evidence us mere punters have access to.

It seems that of late the match review committee or citing commissioner or whatever has placed more attention on citing foul play that has not been penalised during the game with a YC/RC.

If you take the time to read judiciary findings, which can sometimes be found after a couple of googles, the actual process and considerations used by the judiciaries does seem to be reasonably fair and objective.
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
Jets, Scoey & Hugh Jarse - You and I are going to differ on that. A red would not have surprised me. But I am tough on diliberate forceful contact to the head.
He didn't hit his head. Contact was with the chest and Goodwin's head jolts forward.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Holy Shit. Welcome back Reds Happy. Took one look at the size of that post and felt the need to make a cuppa tea before reading it. None the less I think what you are saying is the honest truth.
 

Hoolly Doolly

Fred Wood (13)
"Happily for the Reds, they not only have a succession plan in place but the successor as well, with former Western Force head coach Richard Graham coming on board late last year."

Goodluck with that....
 

flat_eric

Alfred Walker (16)
There will be a lot of pressure on Graham next year. If he can't take this young champion team to the finals then consider him gone by the following season.
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
He'll go back to Sydney. He's been away from his family for so long and commutes back a forth regularly. He's freeing himself up for the Wallabies gig.
Plus he must have found a house in Mosman, the essential criteria for gaining employment at the ARU.
 

biggsy

Chilla Wilson (44)
"Happily for the Reds, they not only have a succession plan in place but the successor as well, with former Western Force head coach Richard Graham coming on board late last year."

Goodluck with that..

Still a bit bitter the way RG left the force.

You should thank him, looks like foley is doing something good over there. Something he couldn't do at the tahs with half the player wallabies.
QRU is in a good place and RG Will be fine. Ewin will leave QRU as a great successor and what he has done and how well he has done it has opened other doors in coaching. What ever happens in the future for him he will also be successful.
RG was given a opportunity to come home to QLD and coach his state and be welcomed into a great working environment so he took it.

But Unfortunately I don't think ewin will be the wallabies coach for awhile.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
That's the feeling that I get to biggsy. I have nothing to base this on but my gut feel but I think Deans will be around for a while and Link has gotten sick of waiting for the position to open up. I don't blame him either, given the sort of crap that you hear of going on inside the ARU. If half of it is even remotely true then I would probably look elsewhere too if I were him.

Thanks for all you've done Link! Wish you all the very best!
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
How big a loss will McKenzie be to the Reds? Would love him to go to Ireland but have a feeling he is making an early play for the Wallabies gig
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
How big a loss will McKenzie be to the Reds? Would love him to go to Ireland but have a feeling he is making an early play for the Wallabies gig

I don't think the administrators in the IRFU would be too keen on McKenzie, at least not if they're the same people who kept Kidney this long. Based on the form of the provinces (especially the rebirth of Connacht and Ulster) and the juxtaposition of that with the Irish national squad I'd say the IRFU in general needs a cleaning out like the Reds had not too long ago. Generally when a coach as obviously out of his depth as Kidney has been for the past few years manages to hang onto his position it's indicative of a larger cancer within the organization as a whole.
 

thierry dusautoir

Alan Cameron (40)
He'll go back to Sydney. He's been away from his family for so long and commutes back a forth regularly. He's freeing himself up for the Wallabies gig.
Plus he must have found a house in Mosman, the essential criteria for gaining employment at the ARU.

I thought i saw an article that said his family are living here now unless they moved back?
 
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