Reds 2011

[Newter]

ASAP as in now? Can't see it happening. Well, can't see Link telling anyone that they will be on the bench "for the majority of the season".

I call bullshit.

It's not really McKenzie's style. The promotion carrot is his main motivational tool. Why would he stop dangling it in front of any player?

 

[en_force_er]

It's not really McKenzie's style. The promotion carrot is his main motivational tool. Why would he stop dangling it in front of any player?

Exactly, his big thing when he came in was even an academy player who trains hard could get a shot (and Schatz did).

Why would he tell an experienced player who is a full squad member and recently a Wallaby tourist he doesn't have a crack.

 

[TOCC]

meh, sounds like crap

 

[Lee Grant]

Although, I am very excited at the prospect of him locking into the Reds TH side, and hopefully serving up the Tahs pack along with Jimmy Slipper and Co. That would be very nice after our scrum was totally embarrassed by them last year, and probably kept the Tahs in the game.

Whilst I'm not looking forward to the Tahs pack being served up I am looking forward to seeing the scrummaging effect of Horwill at TH lock and Slipper progressing during the S15 tournament at THP.

The scrums did help the Tahs in Rd 1 last year when otherwise they weren't playing well for ¾ of the game. They were also assisted by the Reds forwards flagging in the last ¼, which permitted the Tahs to grind out the win with Mumm in the bin. Poor goal line defence at the money moment also helped them.

IIRR Horwill played 6 in that game. From a scrummaging point of view maybe he should have been playing lock on the TH side, but Link wanted nutter Byrnes on the park for what he did best.

 

[Newter]

It's a level lower than Super Rugby but I and a lot of other people thought he was in superb form in the finals series of the Shute Shield. I would expect him to have an outstanding season in 2011; so much so that he might even impress a few Queenslanders who tend to be an unforgiving bunch.

I know the conversation has moved on, but just on this - wasn't Barnes pretty anti-climactic on the end of year tour? His bench appearances were steady at best, and his midweek performances were cramped and cautious. So much for the expansive running rugby he showed in club rugby. When the level went up he didn't go up with it.

I expect to see stronger candidates make a push for the Wallaby 12 jersey this year, and I think the two players with the steepest upward curve in front of them are James O'Connor, who will probably be the Force's 12, and Anthony Fainga'a, who only needs to add vision to his existing assets of focus and courage.

I have high hopes for Ant Fainga'a. He's a sincerely committed team player, and we need more of those.

 

[fatprop]

I know the conversation has moved on, but just on this - wasn't Barnes pretty anti-climactic on the end of year tour? His bench appearances were steady at best, and his midweek performances were cramped and cautious.

:nta:Barnes is not a running exuberant back, he is safe, cautious, direct and plays the numbers

To me he is a great foil for Cooper, an excellent defender and talker who can take some of the workload and decision making off Cooper

So much for the expansive running rugby he showed in club rugby. When the level went up he didn't go up with it.

:nta:He played for Uni, kicked to the corners and played the numbers behind a quality cohesive pack - you may notice that the difference between that description and the mid week games (hint - a quality cohesive pack)

I expect to see stronger candidates make a push for the Wallaby 12 jersey this year, and I think the two players with the steepest upward curve in front of them are James O'Connor, who will probably be the Force's 12, and Anthony Fainga'a, who only needs to add vision to his existing assets of focus and courage.

I have high hopes for Ant Fainga'a. He's a sincerely committed team player, and we need more of those.

Hopefully there are, I always want to see upgrades, but to me JOC (James O'Connor) and Gits are the only current viable options. Ant isn't up to it. His crash ball is better, but in all other areas Barnes is a better option

 

[Newter]

@fatprop - Barnes played a dominant running/playmaking game for Uni whenever they broke into the opp 22, and hopes rose for more of the same in Test matches. It more or less didn't happen. He tried hard to do it against Italy for a while and looked awkward, then went back to kicking. Against France he was mostly quiet, apart from the one inside ball to O'Connor which wasn't the main contributor to the try that followed IMO. In the midweek matches he showed nothing but boot to ball.

I'm not saying he's rubbish. But he got plenty of good front foot ball in the Tests he played (our pack was fine against Italy and France) and didn't look that great. Apart from his nice low tackling, that is.

Ant Fainga'a showed glimpses of a good passing game during the Reds season last year. If he builds on it we could have a highly physical linkman at 12. I'd prefer that to Barnes.

 

[Bruce Ross]

IIRR Horwill played 6 in that game. From a scrummaging point of view maybe he should have been playing lock on the TH side, but Link wanted nutter Byrnes on the park for what he did best.

I think Link outsmarted himself with that selection, LG. Predictably, Byrnes wasn't there to play football, and certainly not to put in at scrum time.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Barnes ... played for Uni, kicked to the corners and played the numbers behind a quality cohesive pack - you may notice that the difference between that description and the mid week games (hint - a quality cohesive pack)

Hopefully there are, I always want to see upgrades, but to me JOC (James O'Connor) and Gits are the only current viable options. Ant isn't up to it. His crash ball is better, but in all other areas Barnes is a better option

He also played inside two big, dominant centres, i.e., "a quality cohesive" midfield.

And while I'm on the subject if Anthony Fainga'a at this stage is a better 12 than Tom Carter I know nothing about rugby. (Would the Carter bashers please form an orderly queue.) Fortunately with the new Super 15 format we'll really get the opportunity to see how our players match up with their local counterparts given the additional local derbies.

 

[Thomas]

I know nothing about rugby

Well finally you admitted it

 

[Red Rooster]

I think Link outsmarted himself with that selection, LG. Predictably, Byrnes wasn't there to play football, and certainly not to put in at scrum time.

How was he outsmarted? - Horwill scored a try playing 6 for the first time. and against a Wallaby pack had no issue until the last scrum, ironically when Slipper came on the field - They were not outmuscled by the Tahs and lost in in the last minute. Hickey said they were outplayed?

 

[Brumbies Guy]

He also played inside two big, dominant centres, i.e., "a quality cohesive" midfield.

And while I'm on the subject if Anthony Fainga'a at this stage is a better 12 than Tom Carter I know nothing about rugby. (Would the Carter bashers please form an orderly queue.) Fortunately with the new Super 15 format we'll really get the opportunity to see how our players match up with their local counterparts given the additional local derbies.

At this stage how could he not be? Ant outscored Carter in almost every statistic in this years Super 14 (from memory Ant was one of the top of G&GR Aussie players for defense stats, which is said to be Carter's strong point), was unanimously voted Aust Inside Center of the year by G&GR, got a Wallabies squad call up and was Wallaby capped. In his first real season without injury I think he showed great promise.

 

[Lee Grant]

How was he outsmarted? - Horwill scored a try playing 6 for the first time. and against a Wallaby pack had no issue until the last scrum, ironically when Slipper came on the field - They were not outmuscled by the Tahs and lost in in the last minute. Hickey said they were outplayed?

I think Bruce meant that Byrnes was put in the starting team partly to play the man and niggle some of his old mates at the Tahs - and that, had he not started, then Horwill would have been the TH lock and the scrums may have been better. Thus Link could have out smarted himself.

When you wrote against a Wallaby pack had no issue until the last scrum did you mean that the Reds scrum had no problem against the Tahs scrum in that game until the last one? Probably not.

When you wrote They were not outmuscled by the Tahs, did you include the last quarter of the game? I thought the Tahs forwards gained superiority then and the binning of Mumm near the end hardly changed matters. Whether that is out-muscling, or not, is a matter of wording. The Tahs pack just looked fitter mentally and physically in that period.

It's a bit funny to be writing about a game held nearly a year ago, but there's not much else to do, I suppose.


On Ant Fainga'a. I thought he played well in the S14 in 2010 and deserved his Wallaby gigs. On the other hand I thought that the reintroduction of Carter to the Tahs backline as 12 towards the end of the season (after playing 13 in some games and on the bench in others) coincided with the best performances of the Tahs backline for the whole season.

Not quite to the point but during the time of Cooper's suspension Ant had a horrible defensive game in Christchurch in his one starting test match. Twice he went walkabout, almost literally, and twice they scored tries as a consequence. You won't see missed tackles in the stats for those incidents; he wandered to places where a tackle couldn't be attempted.

There's a bit of that in his Super play too, but you have to look for it. I'm not saying he's a dud; far from it, but I think he'd be the first to say that he has things to learn about reading the play of elite attacking players.

 

[TOCC]

Tom Carter is running rugby's cryptonite

 

[wamberal]

Tom Carter is running rugby's cryptonite

Ed Carter got all the running genes. He was a wonderful broken field runner from full-back.

 

[DPK]

Tom Carter is running rugby's cryptonite

As TOCC is spelling's kryptonite?

 

[Newter]

On Ant Fainga'a. I thought he played well in the S14 in 2010 and deserved his Wallaby gigs. On the other hand I thought that the reintroduction of Carter to the Tahs backline as 12 towards the end of the season (after playing 13 in some games and on the bench in others) coincided with the best performances of the Tahs backline for the whole season.

Not quite to the point but during the time of Cooper's suspension Ant had a horrible defensive game in Christchurch in his one starting test match. Twice he went walkabout, almost literally, and twice they scored tries as a consequence. You won't see missed tackles in the stats for those incidents; he wandered to places where a tackle couldn't be attempted.

There's a bit of that in his Super play too, but you have to look for it. I'm not saying he's a dud; far from it, but I think he'd be the first to say that he has things to learn about reading the play of elite attacking players.

Well spotted, Lee.

It's worth remembering that Ant Fainga'a is not an experienced player yet. He's only got about 20 Super rugby caps, let alone Test rugby. The vision and the game sense will come. If he stays fit all season for the Reds he may just get it together in time for a serious challenge to the Wallabies starting jersey this year.

Tom Carter is alright but is he going to get much better? I don't have figures for this but Fainga'a just seems a lot more explosive over short distances - he hits very hard in defence when he gets there, and at the right times, usually just when the opposition is getting a roll on and looking good for a try.

 

[TOCC]

As TOCC is spelling's kryptonite?

apologies Padawan master, il be sure to confer with yourself before i next refer to a fictional element from a superman movies :lmao:

 

[DPK]

apologies Padawan master, il be sure to confer with yourself before i next refer to a fictional element from a superman movies :lmao:

Ho ho ho, got me there!

 

[TOCC]

lol, lighten up sweetheart



At least the good thing for the Reds is that those players who have had surgery like Ioane, Horwill and Chambers are practically fully fit now and not battling a timeline for the start of the season. When you get players rushing to be fit towards a date its when recurring injuries can happen by pushing it to hard.