Rebels 2017

[daz]

Just between us and the fence posts, it irritates me no end when the Rebels are called the "joke" of the comp because of our (fucking) poor season this year.

I would like to point out we have finished above the Force, fairly significantly, in ALL but 1 season since we joined (not including this current season).

How does that make WA a better rugby state than Vic moving forward?

They talk about the recent development of players coming through, but almost never mention they have been around 5 years longer than us.

PS: This is not a crack at WF supporters, so cool your jets folks. It is aimed at anyone reading this from the ARU. Which is no-one. Therefore, consider this nothing more than venting in a dedicated Rebels thread.

 

[Highlander35]

Just a standard SH Rugby attitude I'm afraid. 20 seconds of thought is enough to form an opinion on something I have no direct knowledge of.

Not saying it applies to everyone, not by a long shot, but with the exception of the "NZ raids the islands" morons, I think that the relatively high European consumption of Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship, as compared to the SHs consumption of European Club Rugby and the 6 Nations creates better constructed Rugby opinions.

 

[Rebels3]

Just between us and the fence posts, it irritates me no end when the Rebels are called the "joke" of the comp because of our (fucking) poor season this year.

I would like to point out we have finished above the Force, fairly significantly, in ALL but 1 season since we joined (not including this current season).

How does that make WA a better rugby state than Vic moving forward?

They talk about the recent development of players coming through, but almost never mention they have been around 5 years longer than us.

7 wins from their past 40 matches (17.5%) compared to our 15 wins and a draw (37.5%). That's also more than the Reds.

Even the current injury woes to them are getting more press and sympathy than the Rebels have. Only 3 players have played every game this year and also 3 players having to be short term contracted from club rugby to fill in spots, yet hardly a word. Performance has been tripe this year, there is no doubting that but the Rebels have fallen into the ugly duckling title

We are the easy option atm mainly because we were completely blindsided after reported confidential talks guaranteeing our existence. We also didn't get an 8-9month run up to drum up support with the indication that something might happen. Hopefully Cox is a man of his word when he says he wont sell if it is to be wound up. Surely if given the opportunity we could have our own 'own the Rebels' capital raising, the one thing we do have down here is plenty of capital available to drub up funds if needed.

The ARU either way are going to have a war to the West or to the South. What a shit fight.

 

[BLR]

I think it is harsh to bash on the Force, at the end of the day expansion shouldn't have happened until we had systems in place with the 4 franchises at that time being strong enough to justify a fifth.

The Force already at that point weren't getting the commitment from the ARU to help them grow a strong base, so a 5th team seemed to have been embarked upon on the idea that the private ownership & recruitment dispensations would give them an easy leg up, but this still didn't help the Force, and in the long run the Rebels to become strong, as the strength wasn't there at 4 to justify 5. This is the ARU's lack of oversight and the understandable will to get Melbourne on the market without sorting out what currently existed. Probably not a popular opinion on this thread of all places but I have always found it strange that the ARU embarked on expansion while the Force were still so weak, they should have helped us become competitive like the AFL do with their expansion sides.

 

[daz]

I think it is harsh to bash on the Force, at the end of the day expansion shouldn't have happened until we had systems in place with the 4 franchises at that time being strong enough to justify a fifth.

I'm not bashing the Force at all. Your point on solidifying the base before each expansion project is very valid, however that is now pretty much a moot point.

I'm now like the bloke who was walking through the jungle with my friend, and being spotted by a hungry lion. At this point, it's all about out-running you.

I will note that it is yet another side-effect that the ARU have created; survival at any cost. Many things are being broken within the Oz rugby supporter base.

 

[amirite]

Amen Stu.

I'll add that an organisation that can look at even the most conservative population and economic projections for Melbourne VS Perth and can scrap the Rebels with a straight face is a terribly run one.

Even if you could make the argument that in the context of 2017 that getting rid of the Rebels is the correct one, and perhaps you can, you can't tell me that by 2030 that'll still be the right decision all things being equal.

Not death riding the Force (#strongerasfive) or trying to feed the "elitist East coast" theory, but math is math.

 

[BLR]

I'm not bashing the Force at all. Your point on solidifying the base before each expansion project is very valid, however that is now pretty much a moot point.

The best thing that can come out of this is if the ARU man up and realise the real way to make Australian Rugby great again is to actually support expansion teams as the prevailing attitude has always been that if you through everything at the 'heartlands' everything will be ok.

Where we COULD be is similar to the NZ model seems to look to identify the weakest sides and support them so they are the strongest of sides down the track. Now you have a situation where the previously very weak Highlanders team are real barn burners and teams like the Blues which would be considered a 'heartland' for players is falling behind because they have shite management systems in place. It doesn't require more money, it just requires re-allocation of existing money.

 

[Rebels3]

Unfortunately, there seems a theme within the media and establishment that there will be no future expansion. This is basically it, if the Force go there will be no professional rugby in Perth and if the Rebels go there will be no professional rugby in Melbourne, potentially forever.

 

[BLR]

Unfortunately, there seems a theme within the media and establishment that there will be no future expansion. This is basically it, if the Force go there will be no professional rugby in Perth and if the Rebels go there will be no professional rugby in Melbourne, potentially forever.

By expansion teams I mean the Force & the Rebels, for example if they were to backtrack and then re-develop the way they do things, but in a smart way.

 

[James Pettifer]

The best thing that can come out of this is if the ARU man up and realise the real way to make Australian Rugby great again is to actually support expansion teams as the prevailing attitude has always been that if you through everything at the 'heartlands' everything will be ok.

Where we COULD be is similar to the NZ model seems to look to identify the weakest sides and support them so they are the strongest of sides down the track. Now you have a situation where the previously very weak Highlanders team are real barn burners and teams like the Blues which would be considered a 'heartland' for players is falling behind because they have shite management systems in place. It doesn't require more money, it just requires re-allocation of existing money.

You mean that maybe they should not spend 50% of the ARU top ups on the Waratahs and basically 0% on the Force and Rebels combined?

I had always wondered how the Waratahs were able to take both Beale and Phipps from the Rebels and also retain Foley (after he had signed a Memorandum of Understanding) and remain under the salary cap.

There was some article last week talking about Hunt and saying that the Reds hope he does really well and becomes more valuable so that he gets a large top up so they can reduce their spending under the salary cap.

Salary cap needs to include all payments to players.

 

[KevinO]

You mean that maybe they should not spend 50% of the ARU top ups on the Waratahs and basically 0% on the Force and Rebels combined?

I had always wondered how the Waratahs were able to take both Beale and Phipps from the Rebels and also retain Foley (after he had signed a Memorandum of Understanding) and remain under the salary cap.

There was some article last week talking about Hunt and saying that the Reds hope he does really well and becomes more valuable so that he gets a large top up so they can reduce their spending under the salary cap.

Salary cap needs to include all payments to players.

You forgot to mention Izzy $150k from the Tahs and $450K from the ARU on top of that.

Phipps left because we spent the money on Burgess, Phipps manager had more to do with that then the player.

If the Rebels go, the ARU will not get another cent from me, I use to call the Wallabies my number 2 side. Since 2011 I have struggled to even do that, than I have watched players moving overseas while the same old guys got caps and just got more infuriated.

 

[BLR]

There was some article last week talking about Hunt and saying that the Reds hope he does really well and becomes more valuable so that he gets a large top up so they can reduce their spending under the salary cap.

Salary cap needs to include all payments to players.

I thought the ARU chipped in quite a large amount to entice Hunt over in the first place?

 

[Shiggins]

Can someone tell me who all these injured players are at the rebels? McMahon

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[oztimmay]

So remember that talk a while ago about Geoff Parling joining the Rebels?

Looks like he's leaving the Exeter Chiefs, playing a season of top league, then heading to an unnamed Australian team.

Do we want/need him?


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[Highlander35]

McMahon
Timani
Reid
Metcher
Day
Toolis
Maddocks
Jeffries
Colby
Leota
Smith
Fox
Inman
Placid
Douglas
McGregor
Fou
Shipperley
Snowden
Debreczini
Placid
Stirzaker
Douglas

All of these players have missed/will miss a minimum of 3 games for the Rebels through injury.

Many of them: such as Jeffries, Leota, Fou, Shipperley and Toolis, had effectively been ruled out of the season before playing a game.

Others like McMahon (this week) and Smith (Kings) are key members of our starting XV, but only made returns recently.

Chuck on the fact that blokes like Sefa, Koroibete, and I think Hanson have also missed two games through injury, and the fact that Reid was playing injured for 3 weeks.

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[James Pettifer]

So remember that talk a while ago about Geoff Parling joining the Rebels?

Looks like he's leaving the Exeter Chiefs, playing a season of top league, then heading to an unnamed Australian team.

Do we want/need him?


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Hmm. What position does he play?

Lock. What do locks do?

Catch the ball at the line out.

Nah, our line out is good enough as it is

Given my proposed Rebels strategy of kicking the ball as far down field as possible (as we have Debreczini and Hodge) and winning line outs, I reckon that he would be a great addition to the team. I guess he'd replace Dominic Day.

Of course, we can't sign anyone up at the moment, so it is probably academic. Neither the Force nor the Rebels are likely to have much of a squad if the ARU keeps on screwing around.

 

[swingpass]

Highlander35 said: ↑

Lopeti Timani (suspended): 2 weeks
Jonah Placid (hip): 2 weeks
Sean McMahon (ankle/knee): 2 – 3 weeks
Nic Stirzaker (ankle): 4 – 5 weeks
Jordy Reid (back): 5 – 7 weeks
Jack Debreczeni (hamstring): 6 – 8 weeks
Murray Douglas (foot): 8 – 10 weeks
Harley Fox (ankle): 8 – 10 weeks
Jack McGregor (foot): 4 months
Tim Metcher (foot): indefinitely
Sam Jeffries (ankle): indefinitely
Mick Snowden (foot): season
Rob Leota (knee): season
Alex Toolis (neck): season
Pama Fou (knee): season
Dominic Shipperley (knee): season

Urgh.

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so that's 7 or 8 from the match day 23 and at least four from the starting XV. very urgh.

Can someone tell me who all these injured players are at the rebels? McMahon

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this was from a post a couple of weeks ago

 

[oztimmay]

Hmm. What position does he play?

Lock. What do locks do?

Catch the ball at the line out.

Nah, our line out is good enough as it is

Given my proposed Rebels strategy of kicking the ball as far down field as possible (as we have Debreczini and Hodge) and winning line outs, I reckon that he would be a great addition to the team. I guess he'd replace Dominic Day.

Of course, we can't sign anyone up at the moment, so it is probably academic. Neither the Force nor the Rebels are likely to have much of a squad if the ARU keeps on screwing around.

Yes, I agree; a replacement for Dom Day would be ideal, and well he has the credentials.

There is one thing, this whole non-signing thing. I call bullshit. Remember how we re-signed Lord Lorenzo, and another 7's guy? Plays into this whole narrative of Coxy telling the ARU where to stick it.

 

[James Pettifer]

Yes, I agree; a replacement for Dom Day would be ideal, and well he has the credentials.

There is one thing, this whole non-signing thing. I call bullshit. Remember how we re-signed Lord Lorenzo, and another 7's guy? Plays into this whole narrative of Coxy telling the ARU where to stick it.

I wonder whether the ARU actually have any rights to tell the Rebels not to sign anyone (as the Rebels are privately owned). Probably another issue for the lawyers. In all of these situations, there is only one winner - the lawyers.

 

[RugbyReg]

I wonder whether the ARU actually have any rights to tell the Rebels not to sign anyone (as the Rebels are privately owned). Probably another issue for the lawyers. In all of these situations, there is only one winner - the lawyers.

ARU have to ratify every contract, so yeah, they do.

Signing Parling is ridiculous unless we stay at 5 teams. If we are down to 4 then all foreign marquees should go and I'd be hesitant about even development contracts too.