Rebels 2013
- Thread starter James Buchanan
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Sir Arthur Higgins
Dick Tooth (41)
figured as much. byrnes on his way out. that leaves us with second row stocks of pyle, neville, jones, chamberlain and even davidson. a lot of hard work in those stocks.
backline?
phipps, JOC (James O'Connor), Vuna, mitchell, inman, gerrard, beale.
kinghi, hilgendorf......need a few backs! especially if gerrard moves on too.
backline?
phipps, JOC (James O'Connor), Vuna, mitchell, inman, gerrard, beale.
kinghi, hilgendorf......need a few backs! especially if gerrard moves on too.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Chamberlain is an openside primarily, wouldn't want him starting at lock. Isn't Davidson is smaller than Daisy Dennis? And he's mainly an 8. Another you don't want starting at lock.
Pyle, Neville, Jones are all fine, but they will need another out and out lock in their squad, and maybe another in their EPS (or whatever their equivalent is).
Still, a much stronger pack than I was envisaging. Looking good so far.
What's the news on Ged? He'd be the next overseas signing that they surely would be key to retain for at least one more year.
The backline, on paper, is damn good, but depth may be an issue.
Pyle, Neville, Jones are all fine, but they will need another out and out lock in their squad, and maybe another in their EPS (or whatever their equivalent is).
Still, a much stronger pack than I was envisaging. Looking good so far.
What's the news on Ged? He'd be the next overseas signing that they surely would be key to retain for at least one more year.
The backline, on paper, is damn good, but depth may be an issue.
Sir Arthur Higgins
Dick Tooth (41)
James Buchanan
Trevor Allan (34)
AFAIK Byrnes is gone to Europe. Contract not renewed I think.
Unless Neville gets the second year sads, going on form this year I think he'll probably be one of our best two locks with Pyle. Jones has also been impressive. If I were Saffy, I'd be a tad worried about my starting position, unless I had added proper ball-thieving to my repertoire.
Sir Arthur Higgins
Dick Tooth (41)
not sure i agree. saffy for the better part of 1.5 years has consistently been in our best day in day out. his work rate is fantastic as is his defence. he might not be an out and out fetcher by neither are higgers, jones nor chamberlain.
higgers will obviously take blindside in my opinion. delve clearly takes 8 so the battle is for 7 between saffy, chamberlain, possibly davidson and jones. neville has only played a few games, yes he's impressed but by no means do i think he's guaranteed to start and i could easily see him on the bench with jones starting in the second row again.
one of saffy and chamberlain starting and the other coming off the bench. davidson is the fellow who likely won't be seeing too many minutes i dare say.
higgers will obviously take blindside in my opinion. delve clearly takes 8 so the battle is for 7 between saffy, chamberlain, possibly davidson and jones. neville has only played a few games, yes he's impressed but by no means do i think he's guaranteed to start and i could easily see him on the bench with jones starting in the second row again.
one of saffy and chamberlain starting and the other coming off the bench. davidson is the fellow who likely won't be seeing too many minutes i dare say.
James Buchanan
Trevor Allan (34)
I would discard Chamberlain from 'best 15' consideration. He has had a couple of good games and a few shockers. I do not think he can realistically compete with either Jones or Saffy.
Neville has admittedly had only a couple of good games but significantly that amounts for every game he has played. If he continues with that form, dislodging him from the team is unlikely at best. I acknowledge that potentially, Hill may revert to a Jones/Pyle locking combination, at which point the best 15 becomes easier to ascertain - Jones/Pyle/Higgers/Saffy/Delve. The more interesting and discussion-worthy case is where Neville retains his position in the team.
Assuming Delve and Higgers are automatic selections for the backrow, we need to look at what else we have to offer. As you have noted, Saffy is not an out and out fetcher. As such, we need to look at what else he brings to the team. I would contend that in his case, this is largely measured by his tackle count. However, it is worthwhile noting that Jones is not an underperformer in this regard, with the SMH stats placing him at equal 12th in the league, despite his time on the sidelines. In addition, I would suggest he brings a lot more to the team, including (but not limited to) his ability to ball carry - Saffy continues to run far too upright and doesn't make yards - and moving players at the rucks. This is particularly relevant if we're going to forgo a fetcher, which is ultimately what playing Saffy at openside means, having a better counter-rucking setup is arguably preferable. Also, whilst hard to measure, I've noted a number of occasions where Jones would make the extra effort on restarts to get to the drop of the ball and contest. It is because of all of these things that I would say that Jones' performances this year place him ahead of Saffy's performances (largely) last year.
I've noted previously that this is something of a mental exercise, as it requires a few assumptions. However, if we're forgoing the prevalent Australian balance of 1 fetcher, 1 boffer, 1 skillful backrow then I would contend that you want to have your three best players on the park at the same time, not restrict ourselves to the idea of playing someone who we have mentally earmarked as a "number 7" and not playing someone else because we have mentally earmarked him as a "number 6".
Now, this all may be idle conjecture as Topo has pointed out. Or, alternatively Saffy could develop his fetcher skills at which point he becomes the out and out best option for 7 that we have. But in the situation where neither of those is the case, we lose little in tackling we gain a lot in other areas of the game by playing two large flankers in Higgers and Jones. Alternatively, we know that Higgers has speed, if he can be tasked with applying that in getting to every breakdown, I do not see why he could not assume a (somewhat unconventional admittedly) openside role.
Neville has admittedly had only a couple of good games but significantly that amounts for every game he has played. If he continues with that form, dislodging him from the team is unlikely at best. I acknowledge that potentially, Hill may revert to a Jones/Pyle locking combination, at which point the best 15 becomes easier to ascertain - Jones/Pyle/Higgers/Saffy/Delve. The more interesting and discussion-worthy case is where Neville retains his position in the team.
Assuming Delve and Higgers are automatic selections for the backrow, we need to look at what else we have to offer. As you have noted, Saffy is not an out and out fetcher. As such, we need to look at what else he brings to the team. I would contend that in his case, this is largely measured by his tackle count. However, it is worthwhile noting that Jones is not an underperformer in this regard, with the SMH stats placing him at equal 12th in the league, despite his time on the sidelines. In addition, I would suggest he brings a lot more to the team, including (but not limited to) his ability to ball carry - Saffy continues to run far too upright and doesn't make yards - and moving players at the rucks. This is particularly relevant if we're going to forgo a fetcher, which is ultimately what playing Saffy at openside means, having a better counter-rucking setup is arguably preferable. Also, whilst hard to measure, I've noted a number of occasions where Jones would make the extra effort on restarts to get to the drop of the ball and contest. It is because of all of these things that I would say that Jones' performances this year place him ahead of Saffy's performances (largely) last year.
I've noted previously that this is something of a mental exercise, as it requires a few assumptions. However, if we're forgoing the prevalent Australian balance of 1 fetcher, 1 boffer, 1 skillful backrow then I would contend that you want to have your three best players on the park at the same time, not restrict ourselves to the idea of playing someone who we have mentally earmarked as a "number 7" and not playing someone else because we have mentally earmarked him as a "number 6".
Now, this all may be idle conjecture as Topo has pointed out. Or, alternatively Saffy could develop his fetcher skills at which point he becomes the out and out best option for 7 that we have. But in the situation where neither of those is the case, we lose little in tackling we gain a lot in other areas of the game by playing two large flankers in Higgers and Jones. Alternatively, we know that Higgers has speed, if he can be tasked with applying that in getting to every breakdown, I do not see why he could not assume a (somewhat unconventional admittedly) openside role.
SuperGrover
Darby Loudon (17)
Alternatively, the Rebels could look to sign Jenkins from the Waratahs.
Giving the option to play a fetcher, whether at 7 or from the bench.
Giving the option to play a fetcher, whether at 7 or from the bench.
James Buchanan
Trevor Allan (34)
It matters for player retention. If people feel like they are stuck behind someone, they are more likely to move on. That perception comes from a 'best 15' scenario.
mjw
Larry Dwyer (12)
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/lipman-quits-for-his-health-20120626-210if.html
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-a-bright-future-for-club-20120626-210id.html
So I guess Rebels will be looking for a few new faces.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-a-bright-future-for-club-20120626-210id.html
So I guess Rebels will be looking for a few new faces.
James Buchanan
Trevor Allan (34)
I suspect the Rebels have already been looking for a few new faces.
Not much of this is unexpected. They recruited the old dogs to attempt to build the culture until they had younger kids with maturity. 2 years is what I expected from most of them. What is positive is what is mentioned in that second article, with Al Campbell sticking around to mentor the younger locks. Snorky is going to be doing likewise to some extent. The Rebels are handling this transition well, by retaining that level of expertise, knowledge and maturity around the club as they transition into younger players.
Not much of this is unexpected. They recruited the old dogs to attempt to build the culture until they had younger kids with maturity. 2 years is what I expected from most of them. What is positive is what is mentioned in that second article, with Al Campbell sticking around to mentor the younger locks. Snorky is going to be doing likewise to some extent. The Rebels are handling this transition well, by retaining that level of expertise, knowledge and maturity around the club as they transition into younger players.
elementfreak
Trevor Allan (34)
Mark Gerrard just tweeted this:
kronic
John Solomon (38)
His not going anywhere. That would of certainly been news by now.
Sir Arthur Higgins
Dick Tooth (41)
i think that's meant to mean hte last captain's run at aami park for the season and stirling's last run.
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