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Queensland Reds V Chiefs 2011R18

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No4918

John Hipwell (52)
I am less worried about this game than the Force but that could just be a result of at least a top 2 spot being wrapped up.

Kahui is unlikely IMHO. If he does play he will run rings around Chambers though he will be better for the full game and hopefully get some confidence back. Sweeney isnt a threat and even Cooper could defend at 10 and cover him and Donald. Messam and Latimer are about the biggest problems in the forwards but the Reds pack works better together and shouldn't be too troubled. I'm doing my best to not think about there back 3 vs ours.
 

chequebalance

Bill Watson (15)
If Reds lose but pick up a bonus point and the stormers win but fail to pick up a bonus point do we finish top? That's how I read it.
 
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daz

Guest
Just like to point out that part of Gill's arrangement to come back from U20's was that he Had to be starting.
Keep in mind he was up against David Pocock, I can't imagine Latimer being that much of a challenge

So true. What a baptism of fire. He is a young kid and his enthusiasm is infectious. I thought he did a pretty decent job against the greatness of Pocock and if he can reach that level again this weekend, I reckon he is our man at 7.
 
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daz

Guest
Discussion point #357:

The Reds have had ordinary starts against the Ponies and the Force, to the point that it seems like they didn't gain any real possesion until around the 20 minute mark. By then some damage had been done.

While I applaud the way they came back against the Force, that intercept try to Coops was fortuitous and against the flow of play. What happens if they freeze for the first 20 this week?

We know about the injuries to some key starters, but to enter the finals they need some confidence and momentum. Therefore, do the Reds need to demolish the Chiefs, or will simply getting over the line be enough so that they can re-enter fortress QLD knowing they are contenders?
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Discussion point #357:

The Reds have had ordinary starts against the Ponies and the Force, to the point that it seems like they didn't gain any real possesion until around the 20 minute mark. By then some damage had been done. While I applaud the way they came back against the Force, that intercept try to Coops was fortuitous and against the flow of play. What happens if they freeze for the first 20 this week? We know about the injuries to some key starters, but to enter the finals they need some confidence and momentum. Therefore, do the Reds need to demolish the Chiefs, or will simply getting over the line be enough so that they can re-enter fortress QLD knowing they are contenders?

Daz, great point re the first 20. But it was worse: needless penalties were also given away in both games in this crucial period of play, and whilst there has been justifiable focus upon the injury log, IMO our Reds were actually not playing to their usual high standards in both games in terms of, for example, handling errors and defence/missed tackle rate. This from ruckingoodstats.com (where btw there is an absolute treasure trove of exemplary stats regarding every imaginable aspect of the Reds' - and all teams' - S15 games) re the Force game:

"There were 36 missed tackles with the Force missing 17 or 1 in every 7 attempts and the Reds missing 19 or 1 in every 5 tackle attempts."
Hmmm, 20% of all tackles missed, not the mark of champions.

Equally, the howls of 'so sad, the brilliant Force deserved to win' favoured by those hapless FOX comms (Horan is especially banal and disappointing) is exposed as an unbalanced and inaccurate analysis by these stats, gained also from ruckingoodstats.com:

"The Reds dominated the 2nd half to get the win. They had 67% possession and 63% territory. They spent 29% of this half inside the Force's 22."

...which highlights the significant improvement in the Reds' play in 2H, and that contributed directly to the pressures the Reds successfully exerted for the ultimate win. The superb Horwill-led charge up the field within unbroken possession in the final 7 mins (and that lead to the crucial final try) mirrored precisely the same impressive achievement v Cru which got the Reds within penalty kick position and forced HRH McCaw into that final high risk ruck ploy that cost the Cru the game. Both IMO were tremendous examples of Horwill's great skill as a Captain and his now proven competence in configuring this team's ability (mentally and tactically) to close out very tight games under losing pressure.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Although I admit I'm slightly biased, I can't help but think that under rating any NZ 7 is a pretty silly thing to do.

Latimer hasn't had the greatest of seasons, but saying you can't see him being much of a challenge... dear oh dear.

My bias leans the other way but I think saying a seasoned super rugby player is not going to challenge a 19 up and comer is a little bit unwise. Until gets more experience, every opponant is going to have the edge. That is all part of learning.
 

darkhorse

Darby Loudon (17)
From what I saw of Steve Kefu playing for Toulon he seemed to be quite good. I think he would do well.

Why are people hesitant with him getting a run? I wasn't watching a lot of super rugby when he was playing for the reds. I would have thought someone of his experience would be beneficial.

Perhaps he has got better like Samo? Because the guy I watched play for Toulon was no mug.

Edit: That would be because I was watching Mafileo Kefu. Still, same question, why the hesitation about Steve?
 
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daz

Guest
My bias leans the other way but I think saying a seasoned super rugby player is not going to challenge a 19 up and comer is a little bit unwise. Until gets more experience, every opponant is going to have the edge. That is all part of learning.

I would love it if the Chiefs under-estimated young Gill. Let's encourage them to do so.
 
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TOCC

Guest
From what I saw of Steve Kefu playing for Toulon he seemed to be quite good. I think he would do well.

Why are people hesitant with him getting a run? I wasn't watching a lot of super rugby when he was playing for the reds. I would have thought someone of his experience would be beneficial.


Perhaps he has got better like Samo? Because the guy I watched play for Toulon was no mug.

Edit: That would be because I was watching Mafileo Kefu. Still, same question, why the hesitation about Steve?

because it takes weeks if not months to learn a teams defensive and attacking style, especially in the backline...

Whats better, a good player who doesnt know the defensive/attacking style, or a average player who does...

There are academy and broader club players who have been training with the squad for months now, they are the better option.

Chuck Kefu on the bench as insurance if need be, but i would be hesitant to start him
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Steve Kefu was part of the bad days of Reds Rugby and I for one remember Him as not being that good.
 
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tranquility

Guest
Steve Kefu at his peak was very good. However that peak was in the early 2000s.
 

bloodred

Fred Wood (13)
I would love it if the Chiefs under-estimated young Gill. Let's encourage them to do so.

My opinion is that Gill will be so much improved for the run last week end. I thought he got a slight lesson at the hands of arguably one of the best backrows in S15 rugby. He will be better for it, he has real instinct for where to be when the action is.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Steve Kefu in his late teens and early twenties was a very creative player, with all kinds of tricks. His greatest flaw then was his lack of speed. There was a State of the Union game around 2000-ish (the Wallaby-less Reds and Tahs) where Kefu ripped the NSW side apart. When Kefu replaced the retiring Horan there was already a lot of hype about him.

After a few years in the Reds squad and his creativity went, with Kefu seeming to one-dimensionally hit the ball up into traffic more often than not. The creativeness/spark seemed to get coached out of him - I don't think the Reds coaches at the time liked his higher risk style of play, who knows. I also don't think that Kefu ever recovered him the shellacking he took from De Wet Barry in a test against the Springboks around 2003-ish. When you have a slow-ish inside centre who has lost his creative spark and is just an average truck up merchant, who then loses his ARU top up in a squad that is struggling as a whole, it's no surprise that Kefu struggled for confidence and ended up overseas.
 
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Tank

Guest
Although I admit I'm slightly biased, I can't help but think that under rating any NZ 7 is a pretty silly thing to do.

Latimer hasn't had the greatest of seasons, but saying you can't see him being much of a challenge... dear oh dear.

He can defend himself, but I am pretty sure tigerland12 was not saying that Latimer won't be a challenge - rather, he was saying that he would probably not be as much of a challenge as Pocock was. That was how I read the part of his post before the part you quoted.

Latimer is a very good 7 (and part of a very good backrow) and will pose a huge challenge for Gill. Perhaps not as big a challenge as Pocock and the Force backrow, but a huge challenge nonetheless.
 

bloodred

Fred Wood (13)


Hmmm, 20% of all tackles missed, not the mark of champions.
[/QUOTE]

The fact that the two players who consistently top the tackle count, Ant Faiinga and Ben Lucas, were not playing could have everything to do with this stat
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
RH: Hmmm, 20% of all tackles missed, not the mark of champions.
bloodred: The fact that the two players who consistently top the tackle count, Ant Faiinga and Ben Lucas, were not playing could have everything to do with this stat[/QUOTE]

Too bloody right, good point.
 
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TOCC

Guest
someone on PR has started the rumour that Caleb Ralph might get the call up.... at 33 its not completely unbelievable, however unlikely.
 
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