Queensland Reds 2009

[TOCC]

FYI:

http://www.qru.com.au/qru/qru.rugby/page/66684

Bit worrying, even if it was a half dirt tracker team. Admittedly it's not a strong Reds squad over there, but it still has some front line players.

I wouldn't have expected any dazzling wins, but despite the positive spin on the losses by the QRU, it doesn't look too promising.

I guess the opposition are better than a tour of Argentina, for example. But I wonder what would've been better for a developmental tour - playing some decent Euro teams or amateur from Argentina. Probably the former, but really, it does create some embarassment for the Reds brand (if, indeed, there even was one).

apart from the fact that there is a few players who will be in the Reds Squad next year, it should be noted that the Reds are out of season. The highest calibre these guys have being playing to the last few weeks is Brisbane club rugby, where as as the European clubs are only a couple of weeks out of the start of the season, so not suprisingly there fitness and team structure should be a lot higher at the moment.

As for the comments that they should have gone to Argentina and play amateur teams just so they werent losing, well i completely disagree, at least with the players playing Pro clubs in Europe before the S14 pre-season, they witness the benchmark at what these other clubs are at and realise how much work the reds players need to do in there pre-season. It sets a higher standard which the players will hopefully take with them and make them realise what they need to attain.

 

[Scarfman]

???

Are the Wallabies playing out of season? It's winter, mate. I'm not trying to bash the Reds, I wish they were winning. But getting beaten by very ordinary sides who are just looking to get some match fitness for a few players in the pre-season is a worry.

 

[spectator]

Scarfie,

Just to add some more perspective and perhaps support TOCC:

• Almost half the squad have no S14 experience whatsoever
  The starting backline the other day had three 18 year olds, a 19 year old, two 20 year olds and Turinui.

Yes, losing is never good but in the proper perspective, this is an invaluable development tour for the young Reds.

 

[naza]

Excuses, excuses.

Queensland are an amateur organisation in a professional era. Australian rugby needs Queensland to be strong and to get their act together.

 

[the gambler]

Does anyone want to sponser me a flight to Dublin for the weekend? A mate of mine whose dad is on the board for Leinster wants me to fly over for the game and lunch on Sunday but I have just cancelled my debit and credit cards because I lost my wallet and now I cant book a flight.

Annoying.

 

[Lindommer]

Aren't you in London, TG? Stump up the cash if you are. Here, I'll lend you some. ;D ;D ;D

 

[the gambler]

I am. Which means I only need 110 pounds. Might just put it on my bosses credit card and pay her back.

What should I do - stay in London and go to Lords on Sunday to watch England vs S.A.

Or fly to Dublin and watch Reds vs Leinster.

Edit - Flights were actually ?185 and given Im hoping to go to Honkers for the Bledisloe I cant really justify it. Guess I will be in the Long Room on Sunday instead. Sorry for not being able to give a report that doesnt come straight from Queensland Rugby's propoganda department.

 

[liquor box]

Excuses, excuses.

Queensland are an amateur organisation in a professional era.

too true, but how will it ever change? the only way to fix it is to go private, and that will never happen

 

[spectator]

Excuses, excuses.

Australian rugby needs Queensland to be strong and to get their act together.

No shit Sherlock!

Everyone agrees that Qld rugby has not had it's act together for some years but the incompetence of the past can't be corrected overnight. Don't forget the mess that Mooney and Co. have inherited.

Positive signs are there. Post S14 there has been a game against an Auckland NPC side, the Barbarians clash and now the four match development tour, with Mooney giving a few talented youngsters and some fringe players a more than decent chance to prove themselves. Qld does lack depth, that's no secret, but they won't miraculouly find bench strength overnight. They have to develop it!

Player retention has suffered a little but you can't compete against the Euro for players like Latham, Schifoske and Cordingley, who are in the twilight of their careers. No favours done by the ARU in Latham's case. Moore's departure will hurt but that was his call and Faiinga and Hanson will step up. The trick going forward will be retaining the talent that is currently being developed.

It may be 2010 but Qld will get there..wait and see.

 

[formeropenside]

I dont rate the Fainga'a twins myself, hopefully Hardman and Hanson can do the job next year.

Schatz is starting at 6 v Leinster, so maybe he can step up to a bench role in 09.

 

[TOCC]

???

Are the Wallabies playing out of season? It's winter, mate. I'm not trying to bash the Reds, I wish they were winning. But getting beaten by very ordinary sides who are just looking to get some match fitness for a few players in the pre-season is a worry.

there is a small difference between wallaby players and this reds team, the wallabies have being playing and training for test matches since the end of the S14, within the wallaby coaching setup.

most of the players in this Reds side didnt even play in the S14 and the highest level they have reached this year is brisbane club rugby, those who were in the S14 have being playing in club rugby.

The key point is, that wallaby players get there off-season leading into the S14 pre-season around Nov-Jan as it is written in the RUPA agreement, the rest of the S14 squad have there off-season prior to this(aroudn Jul-Oct). Hence why many of the Reds players like Cooper, Vaalu and Lucas are out injured at the moment. Because they deal with there injuries in the off-season, If a player is told that he is wanted by the Wallabies and to keep fit, then they will maintain a high level of fitness, i imagine that is the story with Holmes and Ioane, but the rest of the players will take a step back from over-training and have a bit of a rest, albeit with club rugby which isnt exactly as demanding as S14.

Im not saying that i like to see the Reds lose, im merely pointing out the fact that the Reds are out of season and the European clubs are in there pre-season so admittedly they will be performing better. Its the exact reason why NRL teams never win the world challenge, because they are out of season and the Super Leage teams are practically in there peak.

 

[Lindommer]

FOS, you make a very good point about the Reds' players' priorities re matches out of the Super season, especially how those priorities affect their performances on this European tour. But how does their performance compare to the Western Force's on their European tour?

Not fishing, genuine question.

 

[formeropenside]

FOS, you make a very good point about the Reds' players' priorities re matches out of the Super season, especially how those priorities affect their performances on this European tour. But how does their performance compare to the Western Force's on their European tour?

Not fishing, genuine question.

Lindommer, you are confusing me with TOCC. I will try to answer anyway.

The Reds just lost to Leinster, as did the Farce to Leicester or some other English club. I think the Farce had a few draws, but I dont think the tour has been a huge success for them results wise either. I expect the Tahs will win a few games on the Fiji tour, but (to be honest) its not exactly great S14 preparation, is it?

I'd rather the Reds were winning, if only to make such tours more viable in future, but in reality its a learning experience for some young players, as well as an opportunity to assess those players. I'd rather see the Reds doing tough tours - to NZ to play NPC sides as a warmup, to Argentina for some tough scrummaging, to the NH to play in mud and rain. To that extent, the tour is a success.

With no ARC, the Reds have to make their own end of season tour. The ARU has pushed this back to the States, when it should be sending an A team to a real tour, or throw together a big Wallaby party and play midweek matches on a extended NH tour. If the various States can get NH clubs keen to play them, surely the chance to play the Wallabies would be interesting as well. Yes, an experimental Wallabies might lose to the Ospreys again: big deal, hopefully the players learn from it.

 

[Lee Grant]

It's good that the youngsters, in particular, get to go on these tours. It was always part of the charm of playing rugby union in the amateur days and it kept a few of them in our game.

These tour games will give those who haven't played in a professional game yet, or not started in one, a taste of what it is like. They will find out that learning how to get on with other fellows away from home, day in day out, is an important part of professional rugby and if they are receptive enough it will improve their outlook on life also.

This is a development tour, as is the Force tour, but at the same time the coaches will be looking at how individuals can handle the step up they will have to take in the S14 arena. No doubt some will be viewed as disappointments at the end of the tour but there will be some that will take the opportunity will both hands.

The identification of these lads will excite the coaches as they are also the most likely to take their opportunities as soon as they are pushed onto the park for their first S14 match.

The coaches may find out that the names of some of these players are not the ones they expected from looking at them before the tour in Brisbane.

 

[spectator]

Smacked again on the weekend 48-19 by a very strong Leinster side, loaded with Internationals. Must have been hopeful at halftime trailing 22-19 but it appears Leinster ran over them towards the end.

One more game in France to go (tomorrow morning our time).

 

[formeropenside]

Former Wallabies prop Greg Holmes will captain Queensland for the first time on Thursday (AEST) as the Reds look to finish their European development tour on a high in France.

Holmes has replaced seasoned centre Morgan Turinui as the side's skipper for the final tour match against French lower-division club Nice.

Turinui is being rested after leading the young Queenslanders in their three losses to more fancied Irish opponents in the past 10 days.

Former Brumby Anthony Fiangaa's strong form out of position at five-eighth in the 48-19 loss to Leinster has seen him retained in the backline at inside centre.

Fiangaa will combine with Charlie Fetoai in the midfield as English recruit Ben Gollings returns from injury at flyhalf.

The short Reds tour has provided loose-head Holmes, Australia's Test rookie of 2006, with an important block of matches in his comeback from knee surgery.

While soundly beaten by Irish powerhouse Leinster at the weekend, Reds coach Phil Mooney was pleased with the performance, especially in the first half when his young charges led 19-14.

"We have been very, very pleased with the effort of the lads, but the reality is that effort does not win you games," he said.

"We are here to improve as a team that plays in the Super 14 and Saturday provided the opportunity to see which guys can perform under pressure.

"That gives the coaches an insight into who we think can push for Super 14 positions."

Queensland: Rod Davies, Aidan Tuoa, Charlie Fetoai, Anthony Fiangaa, Luke Morahan, Ben Gollings, Will Genia; Leroy Houston, Tasi Loafutu, Jake Schatz, Rob simmons, Van Humphries, Jack Kennedy, Albert Anae, Greg Holmes (capt). Res: James Slipper, Shon Siemonek, Adam Byrnes, Scott Higginbotham, Brendan McKibbin, Jono Lance, James Harvey, Andrew Shaw.

Will be interesting to see if Gollings gets the "marquee" foreign player slot. Nice to see Schatz backing up at 6 again.

With Hanson having broken his hand, Albert Anae starts at hooker (he can play both prop and hooker) and I assume either Slipper or Siemonek is the backup hooker.

 

[Ash]

I don't think the Reds need to give Gollings a contract simply to cover numbers. Barnes, Cooper and Lucas all cover 10. Fainga'a could possibly too. It makes more sense to me to run with Cooper 10, Barnes 12 and Fainga'a on the bench to cover 10, 12 and 13 along with someone like Toua or Davies or Connor, who can cover 11, 14 and 15 - for example. If Lucas is backup 10 cover, then they would want two decent 9s in the junior squad as well though, with Swanepoel being one I guess.

BTW, Lucas was supposed to recover from his knee injury in time for the tour. Anyone know what happened?

How did Fetoai go in the Brisbane club comp?

And does anyone rate Morahan?

 

[formeropenside]

Ash, I dont think Qld need another 10, myself, but I will admit that Gollings appears to have composure and the ability to close out a game, something Cooper (and perhaps even Barnes) does not have at this stage.

Maybe with Gollings we dont need Turinui in the backline so much to be an old head. Perhaps that is a factor in the equation: no ARU top up, no Morgs, so we acquire some experience.

 

[spectator]

Ash,
You make valid points about the recruitment or otherwise of Gollings. It is going to be Cooper's 3rd year in S14 and he really does have to step up next year and prove he can run a backline etc..Backup is quite strong as well. Still, as Former says he would be a handy acquisition.

Fetoiai had limited game time in the Brisbane club comp spending most of the season riding the pine for the Reds. From what I have seen of him this year, he is quite strong defensively and solid without being brilliant.

Morahan is definitely one to watch. Only 18 but he looked more than capable playing for Uni in club comp and when he got on the field for Qld against Auckland and the BaaBaa's. He is a big bloke with plenty pace and a decent kick.

By the way, the Reds fininished their tour on a high with victory over Nice. Not sure what standard they are at but still a confidence booster for tourists. Following is a QRU report on the game:

Reds end tour on a high
Thursday, 4 September 2008
The QR Reds were given a royal reception on Wednesday evening after wrapping up their four game development tour of Ireland and France with a 40-11 victory over Nice in France.

Scoring six tries in an emphatic win over their French hosts, the young Queenslanders capped a steady development in each of their three previous games in Ireland to claim their first win on tour.

The side was even treated to a meeting with royalty when Prince Albert of Monaco visited the players in the dressing room after the game and was presented with a signed Reds shirt by captain on the night, Greg Holmes.

Reds Head Coach Phil Mooney has been delighted with his side?s improvement in the face of every obstacle the tour has thrown at it and he was very proud of their final game win.

"It is very pleasing to get a win from the tour," Mooney said.

"It was a great night all round with Nice presenting a very spirited and physical challenge and the lads even got to meet Prince Albert.

"It is just another example of what top flight rugby can throw up for players and it was very pleasing that our young guys could cap it so well on the pitch."

The visiting Queenslanders wasted no time in using the confidence they had built up against top quality opposition on the tour and came flying out of the traps to surprise their French hosts.

Limiting Nice to two penalties in the opening half, the young Reds raced ahead with four unanswered tries through Ben Gollings, Anthony Fainga'a, Leroy Houston and Aidan Toua.

Gollings converted three of the tries to cement a 26-6 lead for his side at the break; however the Reds were not finished.

A second try from Aidan Toua and one from Charlie Fetoai, converted by
Jono Lance wrapped up the 40-11 win, with Nice scrambling over for a try of their own in the second period.

19-year old winger Toua has been one of the stand-out performers of the tour and his terrific solo try was the highlight of the evening.

The young squad will now return home with aspirations of forcing their way into the side's Super 14 plans for the coming season and their coach feels players like Toua have benefited from the tour.

"He (Toua) is a good example of what this tour means," Mooney said.

"He has some great attacking skills, but the tour in general and the higher standard compared to club rugby at home it has presented, has highlighted the defensive aspects of the game he needs to work on.

"Now he has a fairly good example of what he needs to do to improve and what it will take to play in the Super 14 for the Reds.

"In terms of expecting some to make the step up in the coming season, we have aspirations to be at the top end of the Super 14, so we will have to see.

"The lads have stepped up to every challenge thrown at them, but some are coming from club level at home, which is considerably lower than Super 14 standard and awareness of what is needed to play at the top is the most important result of this tour.?

QR REDS 40 Toua 2, Gollings, Fainga'a, Houston, Fetoai tries, Gollings 4, Lance con. NICE 11.

 

[formeropenside]

Well, thats one more win than the Force managed on their tour. It seems Aiden Toua impressed; I'd like to see what Phil Mooney has written down about each player on the tour sheet.