QLD GPS Rugby 2018

[Garry Owens]

^Oh I see you are still one of these guys that thinks student / athletes are “paid” for

Well I guess that has happened in some places with last minute ring ins of boys that rock up in Yr 11/12 and can’t receive fee concessions etc

But in the majority of cases, across all schools who have chosen to augment their sporting programs with talent who already weren’t on an enrolment list, the big shift over the last 3-5 years has been on earlier middle school entrance

This way the student has the additional opportunity to develop within , and contribute to , the place where they are at

It takes time to get this right as initially the temptation is to “fan boy” recruit - the end result being there is rarely any balance / reciprocity in the relationship

Takes a first wave where there is high ratio of takers / dickheads that ultimately get weeded out - either by their own hand or by that of the school before those responsible for it get better at judging the values / make up of the kid and family that seem to match those values that the school / their programs want to be about

Hence - results / culture growth / more results / New enrolment growth

I just think GT hasn’t quite got passed the first wave

Maybe it’s getting there though

But also to fairly acknowledge ......I am sure Terrace doesn’t have to worry about enrolment growth into any foreseeable future - so not sure what the one foot in / one foot out approach to talent addition is all about

 

[The Nomad]

^Oh I see you are still one of these guys that thinks student / athletes are “paid” for

Well I guess that has happened in some places with last minute ring ins of boys that rock up in Yr 11/12 and can’t receive fee concessions etc

But in the majority of cases, across all schools who have chosen to augment their sporting programs with talent who already weren’t on an enrolment list, the big shift over the last 3-5 years has been on earlier middle school entrance

This way the student has the additional opportunity to develop within , and contribute to , the place where they are at

It takes time to get this right as initially the temptation is to “fan boy” recruit - the end result being there is rarely any balance / reciprocity in the relationship

Takes a first wave where there is high ratio of takers / dickheads that ultimately get weeded out - either by their own hand or by that of the school before those responsible for it get better at judging the values / make up of the kid and family that seem to match those values that the school / their programs want to be about

Hence - results / culture growth / more results / New enrolment growth

I just think GT hasn’t quite got passed the first wave

Maybe it’s getting there though

But also to fairly acknowledge ..I am sure Terrace doesn’t have to worry about enrolment growth into any foreseeable future - so not sure what the one foot in / one foot out approach to talent addition is all about

Yep, the FULL sign has been up at Terrace for quite some time, so any lad introduced on a "deal" does cost somebody something, whether that be a spot at the school or a financial loss of fees. Maybe that is not the case at other schools, but surely it costs something to educate these sports stars , or is educating them not a priority? Isn't that why you go to school, to be educated?

All I'm really saying with my "can't buy it " comment , is that recruiting some age group stars doesn't automatically give you great culture. As mentioned in your "fan boy" comment , it can easily erode culture, nobody is going to be overly enthusiastic about bunch of self centred sports stars taking their spot. The feeling of others getting preferential treatment can quite quickly become toxic.

Schools like NC, Churchie and GT have got teams down to F's in every age group and 6ths in the Opens, so it's not an issue of needing more participation or future enrolments . The sons of rugby playing old boys keep these schools reasonably stocked with talent that are also passionate about the school. Guess that is where you are headed with your argument, the new recruits have to buy into the culture. Which is exactly what I'm saying , they don't make it.




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[Confucius Say]

Did your buddy offer you a Coaching gig there ?

What Team ?

Don't know who you thunk I am but I am not a coach. And please delete your racist remark about Terrace. Your coaching mate would read that and be offended.

 

[Confucius Say]

Well that did not reflect in results last year with: 1) BBC wining A matches over GT in 12/13/14/15 by over 30 points,along with 2nds and 1sts; 2) GT have a "rugby review" and appoint an ex BBC coach as new 1st xv coach

If culture is about winning, when was the last GPS first XV premiership at the BBC?

 

[Garry Owens]

Yep, the FULL sign has been up at Terrace for quite some time, so any lad introduced on a "deal" does cost somebody something, whether that be a spot at the school or a financial loss of fees. Maybe that is not the case at other schools, but surely it costs something to educate these sports stars , or is educating them not a priority? Isn't that why you go to school, to be educated?

Agree.

However , "augmenting" tends to be generally handled within a ( predominately ) fixed cost delivery structure

It then comes down to ( for a school like Terrace ) as to whether you want to accept less bucks for X number of spots against those good parishioners in the heartlands that are lined up to pay full freight. So I would suggest its a revenue decision - not a cost decision - or if it is "cost " it is only opportunity cost.

So none of this actually effects real cost per se or doesn't have significant impact on resourcing in the delivery of the education.

All I'm really saying with my "can't buy it " comment , is that recruiting some age group stars doesn't automatically give you great culture. As mentioned in your "fan boy" , it can easily erode culture, nobody is going to be overly enthusiastic about bunch of self centred sports stars taking their spot. The feeling of others getting preferential treatment can quite quickly become toxic.

I agree, again , that it doesn't "automatically" give you great culture . And I never actually said that it does in the instantaneousness of it that you infer what I meant.

As to the claim that bringing such boys in can erode culture , conversely , the responsiveness of the existing entitled ,typically, tends to contribute just as much , if not more , to the erosion of culture

With ambitious parents of modestly talented athletes not being "overly enthusiastic of self centred sports stars taking their spot and the feeling of others getting preferential treatment" contributing to the rise in toxicity levels.

It's a big generalisation to refer to every boy that comes in under an arrangement as a "self centred sports star" and sort of reads more like a sense of entitlement that full fee paying , possibly multi-generational attendees , should have first dibs in consideration , irrespective of performance and merit , and then are butt hurt when their entitlement is challenged.

To balance this out though , and in reference back to the prior "first wave" / " second wave" analogy - the first wave typically tends to be a reactive , lazy and superficial process in adding talent and you either do get some kids and families that couldn't give a shit about the school , commit breaches of behavioural standards , or -from a sporting perspective , and if you are solely focused on a consideration of talent ( comparatively as to how they sit /compare with like ) some times the "talent" that is brought in is pretty average. And I think in Terrace's case , in some instances , ( not all ) there has been a lot of excitement in some cases where its turned out to be a bit underwhelming in actual performance v other points that have done it very very well - and have done it very very well for a lot longer and maintained exceptionally strong culture. Nudgee , and to a slightly lesser degree , TSS are the benchmarks here. If a policy regime survives long enough ( for those newer to the game outside of olds hands like Nudgee and TSS ) then the second wave is where you typically start getting it right and eliminating the factors that had negative impact from the first wave.

Schools like NC, Churchie and GT have got teams down to F's in every age group and 6ths in the Opens, so it's not an issue of needing more participation or future enrolments

That's all cool with Churchie but it is probably fair to say their Rugby Program for the last 2 to 3 seasons has been anaemic with very low commitment. BBC has been quietly putting together age groups in some year levels down to F level as well in the last 3 years from when the second wave began , proving , that whilst not perfect , you can certainly build participation significantly off the back off everything falling into place with good management and leadership - good talent ID , good recruitment processes , zero tolerance for individual bullshit and behavioural issues , a year on year commitment to improving Coaching stocks , re-engaging old boys to referee games and Coach junior / lower level teams , the engagement of First XV players to run water in junior games at the start of a day

The sons of rugby playing old boys keep these schools reasonably stocked with talent that are also passionate about the school.

It is an erroneous assumption that sons of Rugby playing old boy keep a school stocked with talent . Passionate ? Maybe. Probably. But it feels we're heading back into that multi -generational ownership and entitlement vibe. Hey I'm not against concept on an individual basis if the boy is there on performance and merit and he's the son of an Old Boy legend. But let it be about performance and merit , and taking a view that what is added can be used as a spur to the existing boys to want to compete and do better rather than this idea of ownership and entitlement because we were here first.

That's how you build culture when this idea , within , catches on.

 

[Garry Owens]

Don't know who you thunk I am but I am not a coach.

You can say that again

A charade is French non ?

 

[Garry Owens]

It's sort of interesting that Shore , after several years , of middling to below middling Rugby results have appointed Rod Macqueen as their Director of Rugby.

Also pretty interesting that they ( gasp ) are advertising for ""talent" in print media

And it's not like Shore need to put bums on seats when their waiting list and old boy preferences would pale GT's into extreme insignificance

I guess Old Boy pride is starting to bite , and ultimately , the decision to augment for full houses is , I suspect , only about that . Pride . Sick of being thumped.

Nothing is too much different up here either with how "FULL" houses ultimately respond to this .

I can't see Churchie letting it lie for too much longer

 

[The Nomad]

GO, the context of my posts should be considered here. They directly relate to your inane comment about "kultcha" at "Terranesia" that was a response to Gungenia's claim that BBC has better culture based on winning a few age group games by big margins. All GPS schools "augment" their talent pool. To give one particular school a hard time for doing so would be quite juvenile.

Well done on your response though, very thorough, must have been a slow Sunday for you. I'm sure there are Directors of Rugby all over the country madly taking notes to sure up their next First XV flag. Also quite funny, got a real chuckle out of the bit where you describe the BBC programme going about business "quietly" and you got a double thigh slap with the "zero tolerance " comment. These things are easy to preach, hard to implement well. Which is all I have been saying, you can't just buy it.

 

[Garry Owens]

That's shore up their next First XV flag Nomad . shore up.

 

[Garry Owens]

Anyway .... I didn't think I was having a dig at anyone in the subsequent post that took me all day to do ( as you point out ) while you were probs at Church and then doing the rounds at Bunnings and in the yard etc .

You seem indignant and I apologise , unreservedly , for upsetting you . That was not / is not my intention.

I wish you and the Red and Black , and specifically , the truck load of new Grade 8 Rugby Players and the 3 x new U16's in Grade 10 , all the best for a very successful , harmonious and culture laden season in 2018

 

[The Nomad]

No apology needed , no offence taken . Just trying to give some perspective to my comments.

 

[Confucius Say]

After back to back First XV premierships, Churchie can afford to be anaemic. Even Grammar has a 1st XV premiership in the last decade.

When will the monkey be off the Toowong pipers' back? That's the question. When is all the good talent ID, recruitment, leadership, and management going to bear fruit?

 

[Keeper]

Word on the street that BBC is looking for new coaches for the 1st XV with Drahm and Humphreys both departing. Any word on who it might be?

Also heard that one of the top pick half backs (played A's in the age group all the way through) has decided not to play due to culture issues.

 

[Hound]

After back to back First XV premierships, Churchie can afford to be anaemic. Even Grammar has a 1st XV premiership in the last decade.

When will the monkey be off the Toowong pipers' back? That's the question. When is all the good talent ID, recruitment, leadership, and management going to bear fruit?

Well, it should be this year as this is the first age group that won all underage seasons (struggled last year). In 13,14 and 15's undefeated I think. This should be their money year. Good Luck to the boys but it may not work out as well as it had been predicted over the past years as they won game after game.

 

[Keeper]

Well, it should be this year as this is the first age group that won all underage seasons (struggled last year). In 13,14 and 15's undefeated I think. This should be their money year. Good Luck to the boys but it may not work out as well as it had been predicted over the past years as they won game after game.

Undefeated in 13's, won in 14's but lost a game to GT, lost to NC in 15's and whilst they lost 3 in 16's still came 3rd overall and considering the talent they lost to the 1st XV it wasn't a bad effort.

 

[unsub god]

Nick Stiles to coach at Miskin ?

 

[Keeper]

Nick Stiles to coach at Miskin ?

I heard a rumor of Stiles and Richard Graham combo.....

 

[The Nomad]

I heard a rumor of Stiles and Richard Graham combo...

........ with Matt O'Connor as attack coach and Knuckles as a consultant. Now that would be gold!

 

[Blanco]

and they would still come third
#jinxed

 

[Countryjack]

Word on the street that BBC is looking for new coaches for the 1st XV with Drahm and Humphreys both departing. Any word on who it might be?

Also heard that one of the top pick half backs (played A's in the age group all the way through) has decided not to play due to culture issues.

Van was always going back to Sydney. Heard nothing about Drahm. No doubt former Aussie Schools coach & Dir of Rugby -Steve Phillpotts & Totai Kefu will be there plus: -new Dep HM was former Reds backs coach; -new Head of middle school is former Qld under 16 coach. After their most successful year ever (in terms of premierships & wins)-I am surprised BBC would have any cultural issues.My nephew is there and he raves about the S&C team.Must be the same S&C for their track team who won by 98 points last year!!