Proposed Nations Championship

[Dan54]

The most workable model IMO is to forget about hemispheres & just have Group A = 6N, Group B = TRC+2 (currently Fiji & Japan, I think). Promotion to/ relegation from Group A via Euro Championship, to/ from Group B second-tier rest of world comp.

Would actually take away from what they are trying to do wouldn't it? To have a World league and not just the winner of RC playing the winner of 6N. Think they will mix it up so there is still incoming tours etc. But to be honest haven't looked at it real deeply, but if it just groups in hemispheres we just got what we got, do we need NZ,Aus,SA playing each other for another comp? From what I understood it the top 12 teams on ranking which takes Italy out of it anyway.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Frankly, that's up to them. I can't see any of the SANZAR members cutting the TRC. They need the broadcast and home games each year against the old rivals.

Only the second round of matches will count for the League of Nations (or something similar)

I also think they'll find a way to keep three Bleds in the calendar. Gate receipts against big nations are key. Games against Japan and Fiji aren't going to cut it

I think they could look to expand the RC in terms of teams. Depending on how they go at the RWC both Japan and the USA will be in the top 12 teams in the world.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I think they could look to expand the RC in terms of teams. Depending on how they go at the RWC both Japan and the USA will be in the top 12 teams in the world.

The issue is you're exchanging a home game against NZ and SA every second year for poor drawing teams and you're sharing your brodcast money over more teams. The economics don't make sense

 

[Wilson]

Who reads?

Again, I'm skeptical. It means all the teams (except the All Blacks obviously) risk having a shocker season and getting relegated, and losing all of the money as a result.

If there's promotion/relegation I imagine there'll still be a bottom of tier 1 Vs top of tier 2 playoff to see if the teams actually swap in that situation. Would likely protect any of the core teams, even the current season the wallabies are playing would likely see them win any playoff against a lower level nation.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The issue is you're exchanging a home game against NZ and SA every second year for poor drawing teams and you're sharing your brodcast money over more teams. The economics don't make sense

I suggest that it would be dependent on whether the World League concept and how much it may offer. In terms of low drawing we really don't know that. When was the last time we played Japan in Australia? We've never played the USA. And there are other smaller venues we could use. They both represent large markets for TRC. It would depend on the million side of the equation.

 

[Rebels3]

Has anyone noticed the major hurdle about having 12 teams?

You cant play yourself, so there will be 11 games, which means half the teams will get 6 home matches and the other half will get 5. You can't be relegating teams without a fair playing field, or in this case an equal amount of home games.

 

[sunnyboys]

Rebel 3. They have said they won’t change the newly created global calendar.

This means NH teams will play 5 tests in 6 Nats and 2 or 3 tests in Nov. that’s 8 or 9 tests out of 11 played in NH. So that’s the first big advantage.

In 6 Nats a team gets 2 or 3 home games, and in Nov all games are home games. So a NH team could have min 4 to max 6 home games out of 11. The remainder played elsewhere in NH, with only 2 or 3 games played in SH.

But this is the same as how the tests are distributed now. I don’t think this world league idea cares for the notion of an ‘equitable’ comp, with a fair share of home v away games, or full home and away rounds.

This about making current tests more meaningful, and more PROFITABLE. Being more profitable helps when most games are played in the Europe/SA time zone.

 

[sunnyboys]

The biggest hurdle is actually Lions tours.

You end up with a 4 year cycle that looks like:
RWC year
World League year
Lions tour year
World League year
Back to RWC year again

Would be almost impossible to play World League in year with a Lions tour.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Would actually take away from what they are trying to do wouldn't it? To have a World league and not just the winner of RC playing the winner of 6N. Think they will mix it up so there is still incoming tours etc. But to be honest haven't looked at it real deeply, but if it just groups in hemispheres we just got what we got, do we need NZ,Aus,SA playing each other for another comp? From what I understood it the top 12 teams on ranking which takes Italy out of it anyway.

In order to get maximum buy-in I reckon they'll be a little more flexible about who's there to begin with & Italy will be in regardless of ranking but with the possibility of relegation via a playoff with the winner of the Euro comp. 6N & TRC remain (TRC six teams, single Round only) with points also counting towards WL. Big casualty will be third Bledisloe, I can see them shoe-horning a second one in but don't see room for a third.

 

[Dan54]

In order to get maximum buy-in I reckon they'll be a little more flexible about who's there to begin with & Italy will be in regardless of ranking but with the possibility of relegation via a playoff with the winner of the Euro comp. 6N & TRC remain (TRC six teams, single Round only) with points also counting towards WL. Big casualty will be third Bledisloe, I can see them shoe-horning a second one in but don't see room for a third.

Yep I see where you coming form WOB, but I can'y see any up for SH teams in a comp run like this, if we have a one round TRC, which counts as part of new comp, and the finals are to be played in NH in November doesn't that just equate to less TV revenue? I thought they would have 2 groups with teams mixed between hemispheres. So we would have group games fpr the new comp during July, with 1 group of 1-3-5 etc and other of 2-4-6 etc, then we can have the TRC and followed by the finals of new comp in NH in November. Think we will have to see how they intend to split teams.

 

[Brumby Runner]

3 NH home games, 6 TRC games, 2 other LofN, 3rd Bled, 3 NH away games, one final (if required)


15/16 games in 22 weeks or so
7/8 home games

Strewth, I must be a bit thick when it comes to scheduling, but I still don't get how your proposal works.

6 TRC games? There are only four teams in TRC, so one round = 3 games. If it's not a home and away comp, then who are the other three games played against. Or do you mean 3 x TRC games (not counting towards the LON) and 3 x LON games (not counting towards TRC)?

And again, if that is followed by 2 only games against other teams in the LON conference, do those two teams play one match against each other while TRC is on? So, they play 5 games total while TRC teams play 8? Probably 9 fo Aus and NZ if there is a third Bledisloe also thrown in. Not sure that that is the idea.

 

[Derpus]

Strewth, I must be a bit thick when it comes to scheduling, but I still don't get how your proposal works.

6 TRC games? There are only four teams in TRC, so one round = 3 games. If it's not a home and away comp, then who are the other three games played against. Or do you mean 3 x TRC games (not counting towards the LON) and 3 x LON games (not counting towards TRC)?

And again, if that is followed by 2 only games against other teams in the LON conference, do those two teams play one match against each other while TRC is on? So, they play 5 games total while TRC teams play 8? Probably 9 fo Aus and NZ if there is a third Bledisloe also thrown in. Not sure that that is the idea.

Isn't this an expanded RC? with, i assume, Fiji and Japan as the alternate members of the overall Leage. That's still only 5 games though.

No matter what happens, it sounds a lot like the logistical nightmare that Super Rugby came up against and utterly failed to deal with.

In order to get maximum buy-in I reckon they'll be a little more flexible about who's there to begin with & Italy will be in regardless of ranking but with the possibility of relegation via a playoff with the winner of the Euro comp. 6N & TRC remain (TRC six teams, single Round only) with points also counting towards WL. Big casualty will be third Bledisloe, I can see them shoe-horning a second one in but don't see room for a third.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Strewth, I must be a bit thick when it comes to scheduling, but I still don't get how your proposal works.

6 TRC games? There are only four teams in TRC, so one round = 3 games. If it's not a home and away comp, then who are the other three games played against. Or do you mean 3 x TRC games (not counting towards the LON) and 3 x LON games (not counting towards TRC)?

And again, if that is followed by 2 only games against other teams in the LON conference, do those two teams play one match against each other while TRC is on? So, they play 5 games total while TRC teams play 8? Probably 9 fo Aus and NZ if there is a third Bledisloe also thrown in. Not sure that that is the idea.

It's not my proposal - it's what I think the SANZAR nations will want to ensure they don't lose their highest grossing home games each year.

TRC remains as is, home and away, with only one round counting for LofN points. at some stage between July and November there is an additional round of games against the two other LofN teams. These two other teams aren't catered for during the TRC - they aren't SANZAR partners.

And in the week before the November games (like this year) the third Bled will be shoe horned in.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Proof of concept (I haven't thought through the implications, eg Bled up against AFL and NRL would be bold)

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Yep I see where you coming form WOB, but I can'y see any up for SH teams in a comp run like this, if we have a one round TRC, which counts as part of new comp, and the finals are to be played in NH in November doesn't that just equate to less TV revenue? I thought they would have 2 groups with teams mixed between hemispheres. So we would have group games fpr the new comp during July, with 1 group of 1-3-5 etc and other of 2-4-6 etc, then we can have the TRC and followed by the finals of new comp in NH in November. Think we will have to see how they intend to split teams.

They're already referring to the July & November int'ls as "crossover matches" which tells me that one Group will be the 6N & the other at least include TRC: only question as I see it is does TRC remain a four-team comp with only certain games counting towards WL, or does it expand to take in (say) Japan & Fiji?

There's gotta be plenty of upside for RA & NZR or they wouldn't be pushing so hard to make this happen. I can only assume they've been able to extract a fairer share of the TV & gate monies from the likes of Ringinland.

Re: the Bledisloe, maybe it should sit outside the whole WL/ TRC structure altogether. That way RA & NZR could share the revenue: I think a one-off, winner'takes-all match would have a lot of appeal internationaly.

 

[sunnyboys]

Proof of concept (I haven't thought through the implications, eg Bled up against AFL and NRL would be bold)

i see you've relegated Wales completely out of the comp!

but yes that schedule would allow for TRC to stay as home and away - the 3rd Bled to stay (sigh) - and still get in the two tests against the other 'SH' teams (Japan being included in SH of course).

The 2 biggest hazards i see are:
1. What to do in years with a Lions tour
2. What happens if a member of 6N or TRC gets relegated from World League? That's extra fixtures outside those existing comps that would need to be included. Thats essentially an extra 5 fixtures to be played on consecutive weekends outside test windows...

 

[Derpus]

It was alluded to earlier in the thread, but they are likely trying to kill off Lions tours.

i see you've relegated Wales completely out of the comp!

but yes that schedule would allow for TRC to stay as home and away - the 3rd Bled to stay (sigh) - and still get in the two tests against the other 'SH' teams (Japan being included in SH of course).

The 2 biggest hazards i see are:
1. What to do in years with a Lions tour
2. What happens if a member of 6N or TRC gets relegated from World League? That's extra fixtures outside those existing comps that would need to be included. Thats essentially an extra 5 fixtures to be played on consecutive weekends outside test windows.

For promotion and relegation to work, it would have to include promotion to and from the RC and the 6N. Otherwise, it's meaningless.

I personally wouldn't give two shits if they got rid of the RC and relegated the Bledisloe to a one match a year ordeal with home team rotating.

I think the North is more attached to the 6 Nations tournament though.

Raelene has been making noise about being able to extract more TV money from somewhere. Maybe this is it.

 

[sunnyboys]

Derpus, agree on the attachment to 6N.

and i'm with you on the RC - totally ambivalent. I like Bled as 2 test format.

 

[Strewthcobber]

i see you've relegated Wales completely out of the comp!

The 2 biggest hazards i see are:
1. What to do in years with a Lions tour
2. What happens if a member of 6N or TRC gets relegated from World League? That's extra fixtures outside those existing comps that would need to be included. Thats essentially an extra 5 fixtures to be played on consecutive weekends outside test windows.

Glad someone noticed

I think it would only run outside of WC and Lions years. Too much money at stake

 

[sunnyboys]

there are some in the UK that would like to see the Lions tours ended. next tour has already been shortened. Clubs see the length of Lions tours as eating into 'their' time.