NSW JRU State Championships & Representative Teams 2014

[Slugga]

In the meantime the SJRU will be choosing an Under 16’s team from the NSW Regionals

As I’ve said, the trend towards forming super teams is not healthy for rugby because (a)Three or four teams dominate the comp (yes inside shoulder even by the arbitrary 40 pts you leapt on, it’s happened to West’s 3 out of 4 games) and (b)With fewer teams the less ‘gifted’ don’t get as much game time or don’t play at all. It’s been suggested some don’t like playing top level players which is not true; they just don’t like playing 15 of them in a no contest slaughter.

Then the State champs will truly be the next step up rather than a de-facto extension of the A grade village comp and serve as the basis for zone selection, with less weight on Sydney selections because it gives an unfair advantage to the top few teams.

Sydney selections, based mostly on performance in the zone tournament is more transparent and a fairer process as these teams are the most evenly matched and selectors are best able to compare apples with apples.

Not the preference of those with different agendas I know, as it makes it difficult to justify the dominance of a few clubs (For the sensitive I won’t mention names, I’ll leave it to the readers to form their opinions as to where much of it might come from).

So for example my tip is MWZ 16’s will win it again this year. In a four horse race for a squad of 23 the winners could reasonably expect 6 or more selections, yes? Last year in the 15’s they had 3.

I’ll watch with interest to see what happens in this year’s Champs and the look of the village club comps post reps.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I’ll watch with interest to see what happens in this year’s Champs and the look of the village club comps post reps.

My information on this subject is that boys will need to keep playing after the state champs to remain eligible for zone or beyond.

 

[Slugga]

The coaches for Sydney 15s last year were from the south and as far as I know have no links with north of the bridge. I think the selectors were the issue last year as Bill and Laurie didn't know the age group so were swayed by certain people. They were however the selectors for the Barbarian team so had closer ties to the management of the barbarians

The coach was from Mosman.
3rd placed Barbarians by far and away had the most selected.
It's better selectors don't know the age group and base selections on performance not reputation. If they need to rely on the opinion of others they should get another hobby.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The coach was from Mosman.
3rd placed Barbarians by far and away had the most selected.
It's better selectors don't know the age group and base selections on performance not reputation. If they need to rely on the opinion of others they should get another hobby.

But he was not the Mosman U15s coach and did not have a son in the team, did he?

 

[10to12]

As I’ve said, the trend towards forming super teams is not healthy for rugby because (a)Three or four teams dominate the comp (yes inside shoulder even by the arbitrary 40 pts you leapt on, it’s happened to West’s 3 out of 4 games) and (b)With fewer teams the less ‘gifted’ don’t get as much game time or don’t play at all. It’s been suggested some don’t like playing top level players which is not true; they just don’t like playing 15 of them in a no contest slaughter.

Then the State champs will truly be the next step up rather than a de-facto extension of the A grade village comp and serve as the basis for zone selection, with less weight on Sydney selections because it gives an unfair advantage to the top few teams.

Sydney selections, based mostly on performance in the zone tournament is more transparent and a fairer process as these teams are the most evenly matched and selectors are best able to compare apples with apples.

Not the preference of those with different agendas I know, as it makes it difficult to justify the dominance of a few clubs (For the sensitive I won’t mention names, I’ll leave it to the readers to form their opinions as to where much of it might come from).

So for example my tip is MWZ 16’s will win it again this year. In a four horse race for a squad of 23 the winners could reasonably expect 6 or more selections, yes? Last year in the 15’s they had 3.

I’ll watch with interest to see what happens in this year’s Champs and the look of the village club comps post reps.

Agree to a point Slugga. The state champs are also part of the selection process with the zones being the final trials. IIRC the weather and top oval were apalling last year so not a great selection platform. IIRC North beat west on the bottom oval??? But came second overall. I would expect that if a zone is clearly superior this year they would get the benefit at selections buy I have been wrong before!!!

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[Slugga]

. The state champs are also part of the selection process with the zones being the final trials. IIRC the weather and top oval were apalling last year so not a great selection platform. IIRC North beat west on the bottom oval??? But came second overall. I would expect that if a zone is clearly superior this year they would get the benefit at selections buy I have been wrong before!!!

My point is emphasis should be on Regional’s not state champs where some teams have an advantage.

The regional’s are transparent and a more level playing field, played on the same grounds under the same conditions. Yes MSZ beat MNZ and MWZ beat both Barbars and MSZ, on the same ground.

Are you saying MNZ were hard done by? Possibly, but not because of the grounds but rather, like MWZ, it would be because most selections came from 3rd placed barbars (who were mostly northern zone players anyway).


There was no superior zone, conversely I would expect if a zone is clearly NOT superior they would not get the benefit of selections but last year proved I too have been wrong before!

 

[Slugga]

But he was not the Mosman U15s coach and did not have a son in the team, did he?

Don't know his role at Mosman and he would not be eligible if he did have a son in the team but that's not the point. I'm correcting the claim that there was no one from the North involved in Sydney selections.

I mean seriously, in selections based on the regional's would you expect truly independent selectors to come up with 40% of the team from third place? At the very least it's a curious anomaly.

 

[Adam Osborne]

What wrong with the ACT U15s?
Got to give Norths, aka Hunters Hill, something to worry about - otherwise they might as well just turn up on the Monday in time for the finals.
And then win the final.

I guess the focus for the U15 and U17 was the Gold cup. Both teams did really well. We'll have to wait until next year to see them in action again.

 

[10to12]

My point is emphasis should be on Regional’s not state champs where some teams have an advantage.

The regional’s are transparent and a more level playing field, played on the same grounds under the same conditions. Yes MSZ beat MNZ and MWZ beat both Barbars and MSZ, on the same ground.

Are you saying MNZ were hard done by? Possibly, but not because of the grounds but rather, like MWZ, it would be because most selections came from 3rd placed barbars (who were mostly northern zone players anyway).


There was no superior zone, conversely I would expect if a zone is clearly NOT superior they would not get the benefit of selections but last year proved I too have been wrong before!

Done to death. Not overly interested in last year. Hope Sydney gets it right. As stated in previous posts over the years one expectd the top SC team to get afew in. Think parra gordon norths etc. Lets hope they do a better job of it this year

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[Inside Shoulder]

Don't know his role at Mosman and he would not be eligible if he did have a son in the team but that's not the point. I'm correcting the claim that there was no one from the North involved in Sydney selections.

Why don't you provide a list of what you do know?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Slugga,
(a) do you have anY standards?
(b) what are they?

 

[Brainstrust]

Slugga,
(a) do you have anY standards?
(b) what are they?

Im not totally up to speed on all the innuendo here, but I agree with IS on the sentiment that at rep level there seems to be some underlying intent to pick all the wrong kids and unless you're related to the coach some how you wont get picked. I can only imagine that the zone guys are working with the Sydney guys, and they are working with the NSW guys to try and make sure the strongest boys get through. The game especially at the club and state champ level relies totally on mums and dads giving their time to coaching and managing. Not all those coaches and managers have boys go through to higher rep and some do. Selectors sometimes get it wrong also, but we have to have the faith that selectors are seeking to pick the best team they can that can play the style of rugby that the coaches want to play. That means that there are plenty of good players who miss out, and therefore the conspiracy theories abound. My advice is if you miss out, man up and prove them wrong next year, thats the way the game is all the way to the top.

 

[Slugga]

Why don't you provide a list of what you do know?

I know

• What I’ve said is supported by facts
• The truth upsets you
• Ad hominem attacks are a poor substitute for debate
• You are a precious petal with a chip on your shoulder

How’s that?

 

[Slugga]

Done to death. Not overly interested in last year. Hope Sydney gets it right. As stated in previous posts over the years one expectd the top SC team to get afew in. Think parra gordon norths etc. Lets hope they do a better job of it this year

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No argument from me there but I would add that it is much harder to get selected from say Southern districts than Gordon. That's why I argue that Sydney should be selected primarily on zone performance, a fairer and more transparent process.

 

[The Incredible Plan]

Done to death. Not overly interested in last year. Hope Sydney gets it right. As stated in previous posts over the years one expectd the top SC team to get afew in. Think parra gordon norths etc. Lets hope they do a better job of it this year

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It's like the villain in one of those horror movies... Or jock itch. You think the 2013 selection discussion has gone away....and then just when you sit back, there it is again.



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[Inside Shoulder]

I know

• What I’ve said is supported by facts
• The truth upsets you
• Ad hominem attacks are a poor substitute for debate
• You are a precious petal with a chip on your shoulder

How’s that?

You make it very easy.
Hard to see your 4th point as anything other than an ad hominem attack: in support of that view I particularly like this:

ad hominem usually involves attacking the traits of an opponent as a means to invalidate their arguments

 

[Quick Hands]

My point is emphasis should be on Regional’s not state champs where some teams have an advantage.

The regional’s are transparent and a more level playing field, played on the same grounds under the same conditions. Yes MSZ beat MNZ and MWZ beat both Barbars and MSZ, on the same ground.

Are you saying MNZ were hard done by? Possibly, but not because of the grounds but rather, like MWZ, it would be because most selections came from 3rd placed barbars (who were mostly northern zone players anyway).


There was no superior zone, conversely I would expect if a zone is clearly NOT superior they would not get the benefit of selections but last year proved I too have been wrong before!

You've essentially proven your own argument to be wrong with this post.

The same inequities (real or perceived) will exist whether the team is selected from Districts or Zones. The same political forces are at play, the same rugby dads are pushing their kids.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

To completely change the topic away from selections, are there enough girls playing rughy to run a Carnival for them over the Long Weekend?

Perhaps a sevens carnival at Under 15's and Opens?

It is an Olympic sport. Our Women's team is one of the worlds best, yet our female player pyramid seems to be almost non existent. We can't keep on raiding Touch and other womens sports for talent can we?

 

[Slugga]

You've essentially proven your own argument to be wrong with this post.

The same inequities (real or perceived) will exist whether the team is selected from Districts or Zones. The same political forces are at play, the same rugby dads are pushing their kids.

Don't see how.
Once again the difference is a more level playing field.
Say for example in champs Johnny scores 2 tries in a one sided game and his opponent never touches the ball, how can a fair comparison be made? At least in zone this scenario is less likely to occur.
And greater transparency, ie selection criteria is known to all, makes it difficult to stack a side with favorites if the performance is not there.
Don't see why this is a problem for some.

 

[Slugga]

You make it very easy.
Hard to see your 4th point as anything other than an ad hominem attack: in support of that view I particularly like this:

That would be because when you googled the word for a definition you didn't grasp its meaning. For it to be an ad hominem attack you would have had to make an argument to invalidate.
'Why don't you provide a list of what you do know' is not an argument, it's a piss weak attempt at being clever - sinking in yet?
Now run along, unless you've something adult and relevant to the topic to add your bleating is just wasting everyone's time.