AussieDominance
Trevor Allan (34)
So much for Joeys not giving sports scholarships, Laurie Weeks article in today's Daily Telegraph proves it.
NSW AAGPS Rugby 2010
- Thread starter Joe Mac
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C
catchpole
Guest
He looked like an outstanding musician or keen debater in the article
the gambler
Dave Cowper (27)
Calm down AD. King's are as guilty as anyone for giving music scholarships for a talented fly half to play the triangle in the school band. It is a topic that gets debated every year and doesn't need to be rehashed here and using the Daily Telegraph as your sole point of reference isn't actually proving anything.
AussieDominance
Trevor Allan (34)
I have no doubt all these other schools do it Gambler(Kings & Newington more than most) but I do see the fact that Joeys proclaims loudly that no boy is on a sports scholarship at the school(im talking about on Sportal and in some instances in the media) makes it worse.
Kings does the same thing and I went to Kings and I don't think it's right. Rules are rules.
Kings does the same thing and I went to Kings and I don't think it's right. Rules are rules.
the gambler
Dave Cowper (27)
King's. Rules are rules after all.
We all know that most schools give scholarships to talented athletes. Whether they call them sports scholarships or not is up to them but it is not something you should lose any sleep over.
topo
Cyril Towers (30)
As a 3rd generation old boy and recent parent I am still confident that Joeys don't award sports scholarships. There are scholarships for music and maths and indigenous students. The old boys offer scholarships for sons of old boys who would struggle to pay the fees. There are a few philanthropic people who put up the fees for boys that they think are deserving, but this is an individual choice. Think about it: what had Laurie done by the end of year 6 to make someone think that it was worth giving him a scholarship for 6 years of secondary schooling (about $120,000+ at the time) on the off chance that he might turn into a good prop by year 12? Crazy. Laurie might have got a scholarship, but I'll bet it wasn't a sports one.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
Isn't he part Indigenous? Also I don't think he came from wealth, quite the opposite.
I come from a big privet school in Victoria and I've seen scholarships offered for both of these reasons.
AussieDominance
Trevor Allan (34)
They mentioned he lived in housing commission, Topo I am happy to change my mind if you could provide a reason Weeks was given a scholarship. What other Rugby Players have recieved similar exemptions from playing fees like Weeks?
the gambler
Dave Cowper (27)
Based on his appearances on the Rugby Club I would say Rugby played a large role in him getting one. I personally dont think Schools should offer scholarships for sport alone but understand it is very hard to control and concede that if they add to the school generally then they are as deserving as many others.
C
catchpole
Guest
This is a very complex and passion filled debate.
I suspect that the question of whether Joeys award sport scholarships will not be resolved in this forum.
However the facts remain that somehow or other Joeys have inducted hundreds of boys over the decades that by the end of years 10, 11 or 12 have been nurtured into exceptional Rugby players. It must be very difficult for any school to select a boy at the end of year 6 and confidently predict he will become a champion 1st XV player by Years 11 or 12. Yet this is the case with the Joeys Rugby programs. This process involves a high degree of risk with propbably a 30-50% success ratio at best.
However, just as many boys that are absolute world beaters at age 12 fail to deliver on potential and commonly drop out of elite teams by the age of 16 as others pass them by in physical and mental development. (The man child in year 7 that is average height and weight in year 11!)
I have seen on Sportal where some observers from Brisbane have tried to introduce a system where each GPS 1st XV team is rated by the number of years each player has been at the school ( ie commencing in years 7,8,9 etc) For those absolutely committed sleuthing out the existence of scholarships to secure a Rugby Championship this is a more accurate analysis of each school buying talent in senior years (when the element of scouting risk is limited to injury) compared to developing their own from Year 7. Some Brisbane schools such as TSS and Nudgee appear to have a significant number of players who have only enrolled in their respective schools in Year 11. To me, this is a much more compelling case of the smoking gun!
Conversely, BSHS contributed approximately 7 players to the Australia schools rugby team in 2009. Other than playing in an exceptional Rugby program what financial incentive can BSHS offer?
The internet abounds with magazine and newspaper articles from Brisbane detailing incidents where Queensland players have been scouted by coaches and offered financial incentives to attend particular schools. The headmaster of Gregory Terrace has been quoted this year stating that he fears for his students in their clash against NC due to an obvious imbalance in size and strength.Other articles detailing the poaching of talent from one school to another.
The debate continues.
I suspect that the question of whether Joeys award sport scholarships will not be resolved in this forum.
However the facts remain that somehow or other Joeys have inducted hundreds of boys over the decades that by the end of years 10, 11 or 12 have been nurtured into exceptional Rugby players. It must be very difficult for any school to select a boy at the end of year 6 and confidently predict he will become a champion 1st XV player by Years 11 or 12. Yet this is the case with the Joeys Rugby programs. This process involves a high degree of risk with propbably a 30-50% success ratio at best.
However, just as many boys that are absolute world beaters at age 12 fail to deliver on potential and commonly drop out of elite teams by the age of 16 as others pass them by in physical and mental development. (The man child in year 7 that is average height and weight in year 11!)
I have seen on Sportal where some observers from Brisbane have tried to introduce a system where each GPS 1st XV team is rated by the number of years each player has been at the school ( ie commencing in years 7,8,9 etc) For those absolutely committed sleuthing out the existence of scholarships to secure a Rugby Championship this is a more accurate analysis of each school buying talent in senior years (when the element of scouting risk is limited to injury) compared to developing their own from Year 7. Some Brisbane schools such as TSS and Nudgee appear to have a significant number of players who have only enrolled in their respective schools in Year 11. To me, this is a much more compelling case of the smoking gun!
Conversely, BSHS contributed approximately 7 players to the Australia schools rugby team in 2009. Other than playing in an exceptional Rugby program what financial incentive can BSHS offer?
The internet abounds with magazine and newspaper articles from Brisbane detailing incidents where Queensland players have been scouted by coaches and offered financial incentives to attend particular schools. The headmaster of Gregory Terrace has been quoted this year stating that he fears for his students in their clash against NC due to an obvious imbalance in size and strength.Other articles detailing the poaching of talent from one school to another.
The debate continues.
AussieDominance
Trevor Allan (34)
Whatever anyone says, I firmly believe part of Joeys success is due to the fact they had everyone boarding it doesn't matter if you have the cream of the top talent you still need hard work and dedication.
S
skullring
Guest
can we just talk about rugby folks, and what cattle each school ha on the field this season, and your hypothetical gps teams etc, and not this age old debate about scholarships. of course they look for reasons to give a good rugby player a scholarship without calling it a 'sports scholarship' get over it and move on, you won't prove or change anything.
C
catchpole
Guest
Ghost who walks,
I take your point.
Tabled below is a quick list of names that have impressed me in the games I have seen. Where I can't honestly remeber someone that impressed, rather than select a player that I know or have seen in a previous season I have left that position vacant. I'm sure the names tabled below will prove controversial to some observers. For example, in the one Scots trial I attended Atkinson did not play. Similarly in the Joeys trial I attended Walford played in the 2nds. He may not have done enough in front of selectors to achieve selection. Who knows?
1. Millar (K)
2. Roach (N), Reid (K), Moore (S)
3.(?)
4. Williams (J)
5. Melrose (K) Deans (J)
6. Killingworth (K)
7. Connor (K), Bond (J) Dempsey (I)
8. Kent (K) Louani (N) Wells (I)
9. Donlan (I), Bannon (N) Lewthwaite (K)
10. Wylie (K) Walford (J)
11.(?)
12. McCormack (K) Latiunupulu (N)
13. Ingate (K) Atkinson (S)
14. Roye (N)
15. Tegart (J) Lenehan (I)
THis should provoke some spirited debate!
I take your point.
Tabled below is a quick list of names that have impressed me in the games I have seen. Where I can't honestly remeber someone that impressed, rather than select a player that I know or have seen in a previous season I have left that position vacant. I'm sure the names tabled below will prove controversial to some observers. For example, in the one Scots trial I attended Atkinson did not play. Similarly in the Joeys trial I attended Walford played in the 2nds. He may not have done enough in front of selectors to achieve selection. Who knows?
1. Millar (K)
2. Roach (N), Reid (K), Moore (S)
3.(?)
4. Williams (J)
5. Melrose (K) Deans (J)
6. Killingworth (K)
7. Connor (K), Bond (J) Dempsey (I)
8. Kent (K) Louani (N) Wells (I)
9. Donlan (I), Bannon (N) Lewthwaite (K)
10. Wylie (K) Walford (J)
11.(?)
12. McCormack (K) Latiunupulu (N)
13. Ingate (K) Atkinson (S)
14. Roye (N)
15. Tegart (J) Lenehan (I)
THis should provoke some spirited debate!
C
catchpole
Guest
I went to the Shore v. Riverview game yesterday at Northbridge specifically to watch the Donlan v. Merriman clash at half-back and hopefully to see the ‘View full-back Lenehan at his best.
The Northbridge ground was in amazing condition considering the weather but the wet conditions had a big impact on handling.
On the battle of the half-backs I awarded a narrow points decision to Donlan based on his confidence and superior pass. However Merriman, yesterday, was not far behind. He is only in Year 11 and playing in his 2nd year in the Shore 1st XV.
Lenehan has a quite day as conditions did not suit adventurous full-back play.
The highlight of the game was the gutsy performance by the Shore pack that put their side ahead for most of the game. Notable head to head match-ups were worthy of note, including Hodge (E) v. Kullen (I) in the front row and Rollins (E) v. Wells at No. 8. Woods played another strong game for Shore at Flanker.
The Shore pack deserves a superior set of backs who can capitalize on the ball won at scrum, ruck or maul.
The Shore Fly-half, Cleaver, played another disappointing game running with the ball in hand but displayed some fine skills when he chose to kick tactically for field position or in attack.
The final score was Riverview 14 def. Shore 10.
I fear that Shore will threaten all season with a number of narrow defeats against marginally stronger teams
The Northbridge ground was in amazing condition considering the weather but the wet conditions had a big impact on handling.
On the battle of the half-backs I awarded a narrow points decision to Donlan based on his confidence and superior pass. However Merriman, yesterday, was not far behind. He is only in Year 11 and playing in his 2nd year in the Shore 1st XV.
Lenehan has a quite day as conditions did not suit adventurous full-back play.
The highlight of the game was the gutsy performance by the Shore pack that put their side ahead for most of the game. Notable head to head match-ups were worthy of note, including Hodge (E) v. Kullen (I) in the front row and Rollins (E) v. Wells at No. 8. Woods played another strong game for Shore at Flanker.
The Shore pack deserves a superior set of backs who can capitalize on the ball won at scrum, ruck or maul.
The Shore Fly-half, Cleaver, played another disappointing game running with the ball in hand but displayed some fine skills when he chose to kick tactically for field position or in attack.
The final score was Riverview 14 def. Shore 10.
I fear that Shore will threaten all season with a number of narrow defeats against marginally stronger teams
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Scots 33 – Joeys 17
Given the rain in 2nd half, the muddy conditions, especially in the cricket square, and understandably a lot of dropped pill, the two teams produced an enthralling game. Both teams should be proud of their efforts and the crowd including Maximus Russell Crowe, probably looking for Rabbitohs recruits, enjoyed every minute.
Scots may not have beaten Joeys for 17 years but they deserved their win. The score was a tad flattering. Scots had only two chances in the 1st half and took both of them and just before the final bell, and the score 26-17, the Joeys fullback fielded an attempted drop and dropped it himself. 5M scrum and try to Scots.
Joeys were behind 0-12 at oranges but 10 minutes into the 2nd half it was 12-12. They kept trying to launch some moves but the Scots defence was like attack, especially in the midfield where the Joeys boys got ball and tackler time and time again.
Scots played the conditions better and more intelligently. 10. Stuart Dunbar showed he was a man for all seasons with his tactical kicking from hand yet being snappy on the run and pass.
Had a good look at gun centre Dane Atkinson who played 12, though he plays outside sometimes also. He's said to be a shoo-in for NSW Schools and you could appreciate his stern defence which you would expect from somebody in the Roosters league stable. 13. Jim Stewart had a better game on the day and 2. Clarrie Moore stormed around the park for 70 minutes on attack and defence.
[GPS and arguably NSW Schools is going to be well served by hookers Roach, Moore, Reid and Dicembre though 2009 Oz Schools hooker Roach would be favoured for the main spot.]
Joeys would have run Scots a lot closer on a dry day but their forwards let in too many marauders through the ruck too many times. There was so much dangerous traffic driving towards Joeys 10. Dillon that he sometimes had trouble getting rid of the ball, let alone trying to do anything creative with it.
Joeys had good moments though: one of Joey's best, 12 Corey Ashby, made a break and gave a magic pass to Dillion to score. It was as good as anything the Wallabies did later in the day. The other stand out was skipper and 6 James Williams who is showing he has a bit of his dad's DNA week after week.
Scots are probably the 2nd best team in the GPS now. Kings look the better side but if Scots play them on another wet, muddy day and improve their lineout, you never know.
[Joeys did better in the Twos thrashing Scots 40-0.]
Given the rain in 2nd half, the muddy conditions, especially in the cricket square, and understandably a lot of dropped pill, the two teams produced an enthralling game. Both teams should be proud of their efforts and the crowd including Maximus Russell Crowe, probably looking for Rabbitohs recruits, enjoyed every minute.
Scots may not have beaten Joeys for 17 years but they deserved their win. The score was a tad flattering. Scots had only two chances in the 1st half and took both of them and just before the final bell, and the score 26-17, the Joeys fullback fielded an attempted drop and dropped it himself. 5M scrum and try to Scots.
Joeys were behind 0-12 at oranges but 10 minutes into the 2nd half it was 12-12. They kept trying to launch some moves but the Scots defence was like attack, especially in the midfield where the Joeys boys got ball and tackler time and time again.
Scots played the conditions better and more intelligently. 10. Stuart Dunbar showed he was a man for all seasons with his tactical kicking from hand yet being snappy on the run and pass.
Had a good look at gun centre Dane Atkinson who played 12, though he plays outside sometimes also. He's said to be a shoo-in for NSW Schools and you could appreciate his stern defence which you would expect from somebody in the Roosters league stable. 13. Jim Stewart had a better game on the day and 2. Clarrie Moore stormed around the park for 70 minutes on attack and defence.
[GPS and arguably NSW Schools is going to be well served by hookers Roach, Moore, Reid and Dicembre though 2009 Oz Schools hooker Roach would be favoured for the main spot.]
Joeys would have run Scots a lot closer on a dry day but their forwards let in too many marauders through the ruck too many times. There was so much dangerous traffic driving towards Joeys 10. Dillon that he sometimes had trouble getting rid of the ball, let alone trying to do anything creative with it.
Joeys had good moments though: one of Joey's best, 12 Corey Ashby, made a break and gave a magic pass to Dillion to score. It was as good as anything the Wallabies did later in the day. The other stand out was skipper and 6 James Williams who is showing he has a bit of his dad's DNA week after week.
Scots are probably the 2nd best team in the GPS now. Kings look the better side but if Scots play them on another wet, muddy day and improve their lineout, you never know.
[Joeys did better in the Twos thrashing Scots 40-0.]
C
catchpole
Guest
Lee,
Thanks for a great report. Just like being at the game only warmer and drier.
The postponed games may assume greater significance as the short season progresses. particularly, as you point out if weather conditions vary greately when games are re-scheduled.
Thanks for a great report. Just like being at the game only warmer and drier.
The postponed games may assume greater significance as the short season progresses. particularly, as you point out if weather conditions vary greately when games are re-scheduled.
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