NSW AAGPS Rugby 2010

[oldboy]

I have been reading the posts on GPS and I cannot believe how week in week out the analysis of the Grammar match invaribaly rises no higher than this sort of dismissive comment - ie Grammar will be thrashed; there will be a blow out; no competition.

There is no dispute Grammar is not as strong as the other teams for a variety of reasons, but principally because it does not have the numbers playing rugby, no boarding house and decades of headmasters thinking it is great to churn out high UAI scores to create an epidemic of SGS old boy doctors and lawyers. In any event, the school fields a team that is still part of the GPS. It may not be for long. But they are still in it. The repeatedly dismissive, arrogant comments are frankly insulting to the many boys at that school who love rugby and play as hard as they can each week. To those who say they should be booted out of the competition, then that proves my point about the arrogance of those talking about other schools. It is absolutely in the interests of GPS rugby for Grammar to be encouraged. We do not want another school falling away like High. Soon the GPS competition will be only a few teams. It is only through scholarships and recruiting that some of the smaller schools still compete.

I have read reams and reams of stuff about Joeys and Kings and View and who sings what song after a game, but all you posters can muster is a few derogatory comments about Grammar. It is pathetic. The comments are about boys playing rugby and that same attitude permeates through the parents on the sideline, the attitude of some opposition and perhaps the attitude of GPS selectors. Just because Grammar is a weaker team, it doesn't mean everyone of the boys are weak. But that appears to be the attiutde of most.

I have watched two Grammar matches this year - Kings and Joeys. For a team that trains twice weekly I understand, they didn't do too badly. There is no doubt that Kings was a vastly superior team. Their backs created untold havoc out wide. I think all tries were by backs. The Grammar outside backs have little idea how to match up in defence. McCormack and Ingate were largely unstoppable. But in the forwards, they held their own. They were much smaller, but did not give an inch. Too easy to say the bigger Kings pack outmuscled teh smaller Grammar pack - that hjust did not happen. Dare I commit the sacrilege of suggesting Graham, the Grammar number 7 outplayed Connor. The other members of the Grammar backrow, Robinson and Hay were also good and held their own. I was, however, most impressed with Killingworth, Kent and Melrose. The Kings boys thought the Grammar forwards played well and suggested Grammar may beat a couple of other teams. At Joeys, Grammar were behind 16-19 well into the second half. The Grammar forwards were outplaying the Joeys forwards (scoff if you like, but that is what was happening). Williams for Joeys was tirelesss in his efforts. Again, the Grammar backs had little ability to deal with the elusive Joeys backs. Hulme scored 4 tries running around his slower, bigger opponent. Four soft tries. Walford's light feet was something special. The point is that Grammar was well in that match. If it were not for poor decision-making (keeping the ball tighter), the result could have been different from the 12 points victory to Joeys.

There was enough of this dismissive rubbish on that other forum. How about a bit of positive commentary. Or is the competition only about th usual suspects.

I never once said that Grammar don't give it their best.
I never once said that Grammar doesn't mostly focus on churning out brilliant UAI's.

Ontop of this, their is absolutely nothing wrong with this. You know, while some schools are fielding unstoppable rugby sides Grammar are giving the world Doctors and Lawyers and you know a great career is worth much more than winning a rugby premiership (as prestigous as it may be)

However, this is not the GPS all round forum.
It is GPS rugby, and the simple fact is that Grammar struggle to compete in Rugby.
Grammar is still a great school.
But don't provide that much competition in rugby, and we are on a rugby forum.
End of Story

 

[Lindommer]

My team didn't get to play Kings on the weekend but for the record, when we did, the mighty Joeys 13th XV demolished Kings 10th XV. My team plus all teams from other schools 9ths and below play in another competition.

Would that be the (famous) Spaghetti Cup? If it is please give us a rundown, Sarge.

 

[wingnut]

sub tuuum is actually a prayer if you didnt realise which is why its isnt bellowed out but instead sung

 

[PhD96]

I never once said that Grammar don't give it their best.
I never once said that Grammar doesn't mostly focus on churning out brilliant UAI's.

Ontop of this, their is absolutely nothing wrong with this. You know, while some schools are fielding unstoppable rugby sides Grammar are giving the world Doctors and Lawyers and you know a great career is worth much more than winning a rugby premiership (as prestigous as it may be)

However, this is not the GPS all round forum.
It is GPS rugby, and the simple fact is that Grammar struggle to compete in Rugby.
Grammar is still a great school.
But don't provide that much competition in rugby, and we are on a rugby forum.
End of Story

No one would doubt that the subject matter here is Rugby, but it's a fact that many off handed, offensive and derogatory remarks are made about Grammar and High, for reasons other than their current state of competitiveness on the Rugby field. I can't remember who the poster was, but someone recently had a dig at Grammar for being too
focused academically, at the expense of providing an 'all round education'. Can't remember who said it, but I thought it was rather poignant 'They might criticise the Grammar boys, but most of them will end up at Sydney University, while the majority of those directing the criticism will end up at the University of Eastwood 5ths'........ouch!

 

[oldboy]

No one would doubt that the subject matter here is Rugby, but it's a fact that many off handed, offensive and derogatory remarks are made about Grammar and High, for reasons other than their current state of competitiveness on the Rugby field. I can't remember who the poster was, but someone recently had a dig at Grammar for being too
focused academically, at the expense of providing an 'all round education'. Can't remember who said it, but I thought it was rather poignant 'They might criticise the Grammar boys, but most of them will end up at Sydney University, while the majority of those directing the criticism will end up at the University of Eastwood 5ths'........ouch!

No doubt, however Spewn chose to give me a decidely aggressive lecture for saying that Grammar vs Newington will be "not much of a competition. newington by 20+". Let's be done with this I don't want to make a big deal out of nothing but I find it condescending and insulting the way he got stuck into me about a comment that is my realistic opinion, and in no means derogatory.

 

[PhD96]

No doubt, however Spewn chose to give me a decidely aggressive lecture for saying that Grammar vs Newington will be "not much of a competition. newington by 20+". Let's be done with this I don't want to make a big deal out of nothing but I find it condescending and insulting the way he got stuck into me about a comment that is my realistic opinion, and in no means derogatory.

I didn't really have you in mind OB, referring to others, just thought it was fair to give the Grammarians a break. I think Newington should win by 20+ as well, but they are capable of forgetting Plan A and Plan B for that matter. The Joeys trial was a good indication of that. There's a lot of talent at Stanmore, will be interesting to see if they can fulfill their very genuine potential

 

[Scarfman]

Hey PhD - you've made your point. This is a rugby forum, not a best school forum. All moving on - NOW.

Cheers

 

[Thismybrotha]

On another note, why the hell are we discussing the lyrical content of a hymn on this thread? Lets all stick to the rugby please!

 

[Spewn]

Oldboy,

Condescending - no. Aggressive - fair comment. I'm afraid you were the straw that broke the camel's back. Of course, New is likely to win. As one goes through the season it gets very boring to read such dismissive comments about SGS. A bit of analysis and positive comments wouldn't go astray. That's all. There are some good players there and they deserve some decent feedback from time to time rather than perpetually being described as useless.

 

[qwerty51]

Grammar might beat Shore. Thats what someone told me. As I haven't seen Shore, I can't comment. From the two grammar games I've seen, they may be able to if they match it in the forwards and the Shore backs are nowhere near the elusiveness of Joeys or the slickness of Kings.

Well then it's a possibility. From what I've seen of Shore they're forwards can match it with most teams but they're backs can't. I hope Grammar get up

 

[catchpole]

I undertsand that Alastair Mackerras was Headmsaster of Grammar from 1969-89. Those years are closely aligned with the decline of SGS Rugby and Sporting programs and the establishment of Grammar as the leading academic GPS school.

Notwithstanding the efforts of Friends of Grammar Rugby, if it took approximately 20 years for Rugby and sport to decline it is going to take more than just a couple of good coaches and the odd standout player to re-establish Sydney Grammar School as a fully competitive GPS Rugby School.

The loss of Boarding Houses and a change in the school demographics also contributed to the decline. For the staunch Black and Gold supporters it could be a long nuclear winter. Positive signs are emerging across the board in Athletics and Rowing. Rugby may take a bit longer.

I wish them every success as a stronger Grammar makes for a far better Rugby competition.

Regrettably vital signs of the patient over at Moore Park are not so encouraging. I can't see a way clear for SHS without a major change in policy by the School and the NSW Government.

 

[Spewn]

Well said Catchpole. I should say that Grammar comes top in one part of rugby - the strip. Nothing better than the all black strip with a bit of gold. Only thing close is the Brisbane Grammar uniform of navy blue with sky blue collar.

 

[no_name12]

very exciting round this weekend

 

[durkadurka]

:lmao:Yes the old spaghetti cup!
Well it is now called the the "Challenge Cup". It contains the following teams.

Joeys 9-13th XV's
View 9-10 XV's
Shore 9-10 XV's
Kings 9-11 XV's
Newington 7th's

The draw isarranged by SHORE and we keep a table. The Joeys 13ths were 2nd on the table after 3 rounds this year. This week my team play Joeys 11ths. Hoping for an upset. We have had a draw with the 12ths and lost narrowly to the 10ths and 9ths. The team on top is Joeys 9ths who have flogged all, except the 13ths (I want to add we were leading at half time then we ran out of gas) We get a lot support for the teams above and even players from the 1st and 2nd XV come along and watch us play. It is a great competition for these often forgotten players who enjoy their rugby and do not get the recognition they deserve (sounds like Grammar and SHS doesnt it) The boys are delighted to know people support them.

On behalf of them and all in the "spaghetti cup", thanks for your interest and support.:yay

Joeys 10th XV is also undefeated in Challenge/Spaghetti cup, whenever its joeys 9ths vs 10ths a good crowd should gather as one of the most prestigious comps in the aagps will be decided.

 

[Thismybrotha]

Results for today? 2nds and 16As results would also be nice.

 

[barbarian]

Kings/View report on front page, other scores as well

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/blue-and-white-battle-kings-vs-riverview/

 

[cyclopath]

I undertsand that Alastair Mackerras was Headmsaster of Grammar from 1969-89. Those years are closely aligned with the decline of SGS Rugby and Sporting programs and the establishment of Grammar as the leading academic GPS school.

Notwithstanding the efforts of Friends of Grammar Rugby, if it took approximately 20 years for Rugby and sport to decline it is going to take more than just a couple of good coaches and the odd standout player to re-establish Sydney Grammar School as a fully competitive GPS Rugby School.

The loss of Boarding Houses and a change in the school demographics also contributed to the decline. For the staunch Black and Gold supporters it could be a long nuclear winter. Positive signs are emerging across the board in Athletics and Rowing. Rugby may take a bit longer.

I wish them every success as a stronger Grammar makes for a far better Rugby competition.

Regrettably vital signs of the patient over at Moore Park are not so encouraging. I can't see a way clear for SHS without a major change in policy by the School and the NSW Government.

Spot on Catchpole.
I can say with all honesty the competitive spirit was always there, and probably still is.
Mackerras did many great things, but was open in his belief that GPS sport (mainly its tribalism) was anathema to what he thought education was all about. It was still a big deal to get into the 1st XV, XI, VIII or whatever.
They have gone through patches of competitive teams over the last 20-25 yrs. I remember in my time there when our 1st XV had not won a competition game for 4 years or so. We broke our run at the SCG as a curtain raiser to Aus v USA test - a Riverview home game. To see the celebration from the hard core of supporters on the day and later showed that it still meant a lot. It will take a lot for Rugby to die there, but even more to really be competitive. But life is about more than schoolboy rugby comps.
Sorry to go OT, and back to the rugby folks!!

 

[Thismybrotha]

Great report. How did the 2nds go for each match?

 

[Spewn]

Having criticises the posts about grammar i thought I'd put my money where my mouth was and travel the long distance to stanmore to watch newington v grammar. I wish I hadn't.

I want to be positive but it is a struggle. The first half by grammar was woeful. They lacked courage out wide in tackling the newington backs. The forwards won good early ball to get inside the newington half but every time they spread it wide they would lose possession. The 5/8 for grammar overplayed his hand with cut out passes and poorly sold dummies. He got trampled by Apo and Luani and never recovered. Newington's plan was to hit the 12- 13 channel deep and at pace with Roods or Apo or Luani. It worked every time. Apo's goal kicking brilliant. 35 nil at half time. Newington's forwards very physical. Intimidated the grammar pack. I think their pack is more physical than kings but not as skillful. Should be a good battle. Their backs are very similar to kings. In the first half Luani was impressive. Cleaned out Graham for grammar while pilfering that would have had him thinking twice. Scrum way too strong. Baldwin left early with a head wound. Jeong made a couple of sniping runs but was on his own in the backs. The 13,14,15 for grammar I'm afraid are out of their depth. Newington scored most of their tries through or around them.

To their credit grammar came back strongly in the second half. They had all the field position and ball for the first 10 minutes or so. Just could not penetrate the newington defence. The ref blew the pea out of the whistle penalizing newington but grammar could not retain possession. All their backline plays resulted in turnovers except for a brilliant flick pass from smith to attard that saw grammars only try. Once newington absorbed the initial pressure the floodgates opened. Several length of field tries. The newington coaches started subbing players And eventually grammar played the second 15.

From the games I have seen grammar never stops trying and today was no exception but I have to say some of the boys are not up to first 15 standard. The defence in the grammar backline is poor. This is where they leak tries. It has to be said however that apo and roods are very hard to handle. I persnally see them as more potent than McCormack and ingate. The newington 5/8 is not as composed as whyllie. He got hit a couple of times by Graham and got a little flustered although his grammar counterpart resorted to chip kicks after being crunched by luani once or twice.

I'm sorry to say that I cannot report too much positive for grammar after complaining about how they were dismissed by other posters. Newington are a definite premiership threat. I think the kings newington game will be the decider.

 

[sportsfan]

Thanks for the report from Stanmore. I generally concur, especially the part about the ref and his pea!
I also want to be positive and encourage the Grammer coaching staff to be so as well. By that I mean if you coach boys to be negative around the breakdown and constantly impersonate Richie (i.e. lie all over the ball and the tackle) then you are short changing the boys and the game.
Having said that full marks to the Grammer capt. who regularly opted for scrums and touch rather than kick for goal.
There is no doubt that Newington have some talented palyers and that they are a handful when on attack but I dont agree the Grammer boys lacked courage, they were beaten by skill and strength, not lack of heart or willingness. If I was the Grammer 15 and ran full speed on a kick return into the Newington 1, who buried me so far below the turf I could hear the underground trains running at Central, I wouldnnt front up for the next kick, but he did, more than once.
The inside ball from the 5/8 for the Grammer try under the posts was sublime and illustrated the skill that is there, but is rarely on show.

In relation to the Newington team my impression is;
They didnt get frustrated by the Grammer spoiling tactics which in past years would have boiled over into a breww ha ha.
They executed efficiently but probably less than 75% of their plays leaving several good scoring opportunities on the park.
They are a game or two off their potential and look capable of sigificant improvement if they stay focussed and continue to work hard.

There is no doubt that they have a good side, and in some positions have a height/weight,skill advantage. All of that is worth nought if execution is poor or desire is low.
Attitude will be the thing that sets the two sides apart at Parramatta next week, attitude and desire.

Given the background of some of the Newington team (i.e. not the super stars, not the perennial high achievers, not the "chosen ones"), and the attitude and performance of their high achievers (2,8,12,13) I think there is a good chance that an upset is on the cards.

Should be a good game.