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NSW AAGPS Rugby 2010

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F

ftb

Guest
Bannon may not have the best pass on him but wow is he electric with the ball in hand. I'd say he would be just about impossible to put down if he didn't have to run forward. Always finds holes to snipe through in the middle with his amazing agility and speed. I'd say he'll just be the player you'd want on when the game's close and the forwards are tired.

Bannon may have the agility on the field although a 9s main aspect is his pass and bannon lacks in this area. The GPS 2nds 9 should have been given to TKS 9 - Lewthwaite. He has the flare and agility with an amazing crisp pass. All my years of experience with the waratahs and brumbies, this half is the best i have seen so far besides Donlan for View. Poor decisions by the GPS slectors
 
S

skullring

Guest
Bannon may have the agility on the field although a 9s main aspect is his pass and bannon lacks in this area. The GPS 2nds 9 should have been given to TKS 9 - Lewthwaite. He has the flare and agility with an amazing crisp pass. All my years of experience with the waratahs and brumbies, this half is the best i have seen so far besides Donlan for View. Poor decisions by the GPS slectors

Bannon's passing was indeed all over the shop, and I was expecting much much more considering the hype around him that some of the anonymous posters wrote in these parts. From what I have seen of Lethwaite in the 2 matches I've seen him, he is a very tough young boy who leads his forward pack well and keeps the opposition's halfback on their toes at all times. Very unlucky to not get selected in the top 4 halfs in GPS, perhaps he was the victim of some sort of quota the selectors did not wish to surpass.
 
S

Sport Fan

Guest
I watched both 1st and 2nds GPS vs CAS games and didn't see much difference between Bannon and Donlan. Both were passing the same. Nothing crisp in either of them.
 
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Nanai

Guest
I watched both 1st and 2nds GPS vs CAS games and didn't see much difference between Bannon and Donlan. Both were passing the same. Nothing crisp in either of them.

This is most definitely an issue.

At any rate, neither of the GPS halves will feature in the Australian schoolboys. Waldo Wessels from CHS should firmly have the grip on the NSW1s jumper.

EDIT: I decided to put these write-ups in order, top to bottom.

Stenberg (TSC) is, in my honest opinion and without exaggeration, the best and most complete half going around. I've seen him play four times, first for the TSC 2nds against Newington, then for the 1sts against Shore, Joeys and Riverview (in that order). In the first of those four games he scored two tries, was full of running, passed beautifully and his 2nd line defense was huge. It still confuses me as to why he was playing seconds as he was far and above the best on the field, but the word on Sportal was that he was the victim of some kind of rotation policy, but any how, after that game I'd marked him in my mind as a serious talent to keep watching. I'd assumed, incorrectly, that he was in year 11. His hand was heavily strapped, from memory, so he may also have been returning from injury (although he appears to be playing with that strapping even now). Against Shore, as I've said in the past he, to put it bluntly, toweled young Jock Merriman in a fine display of running rugby around the fringes, both by him and through linking his forwards, despite Shore's dominant pack. Against Joeys, I haven't posted my review here as I was still in Sportal-land, but he had a cracking game, which was more expansive than the Shore contest, and his combination with Dunbar was excellent - they're a dynamic duo. A half-field sniping dash up the middle from a lineout being a highlight of the day. Against Riverview, I noted above he matched Donlan in a pretty even contest. The mind boggles as to why selectors didn't include him and while maybe not a loss to the GPS sides (who usually come up against opposition well below their level), his absence will certainly be felt at NSW Schoolboys level. I maintain that had he been included in the GPS 1s or 2s, he would've been picked up by Pappahatzis.

Donlan (SIC) is the GPS prodigy who, in my opinion, hasn't shown the dominance to match his consistent selection. In the GPS 1sts last year, he was thoroughly outclassed by the outstanding Nick Stirzaker (I am a big fan of this boy. Haven't heard his name in colts rugby this year though??), and did very little aside from passing. His passing game is good, with beautiful length and a quick action, though he has a rather large Gregan-like arc that slows the ball down, and doesn't throw a good flat ball. His biggest asset is with ball in hand, though not in the way you may think. Donlan runs the ball like a forward, and despite being one of the smallest halves around (I'd say only Bannon is smaller) but he always makes the gain line, and is very direct. He doesn't seem to know how to step or swerve (or doesn't care to), and runs headlong into the man in front of him, and motors him a few metres, before succumbing to the tackle. It's like a pick-and-go, but it's effective. The jury is out on whether it is worth depriving the next phase of it's inside half.

Bannon's (NC) pass is a well documented issue - one that should've been addressed by his coaches, or he should've been moved out of that key position. When I've seen Newington Apolosi Latunipulu has been very limited and the 10, Finlay MacDonald, looked 'spazzy' to me, but the reality was he had so little time on the ball due to botched passing.

Koeber (SBHS) obviously hasn't been considered because he goes to High, but he's definitely up there. Top pass, good, aggressive style, and full of running. Decent goalkicker, too. Would do better in a better side. Perhaps High should lend him to Joeys?

Lewthwaite (TKS) to me, looked exactly as said above by skullring, good passing game on him, and good defensively. Physically probably the biggest and strongest of the lot, followed by the Joeys half. I never really rated him as much beyond this however, admittedly with not having seen a whole lot of him play or having watched him closely. He would definitely have been a more effective selection than any of the halves chosen below 1s however, simply because the quality GPS backs would've had cleaner ball - it's a good thing they dominated so clearly anyway.

Merriman (Shore) is an up-and-comer that has surely made it on the back of his CV and central role in the Shore team. Good pass, but has a slow action. Not very physical, but is a tall, lanky sort of figure.

Jeong (SGS) is fairly large in the Grammar team, and plays a big role for them, but put him at any of the other GPS schools, with the exception of Joeys, and he'd be playing seconds or thirds. But, in that light, good on him for getting selected and for getting his chance.

McTaggart (SJC) is a guy who looks out of his depth - he does the kicking duties for the team, and my feeling is that he's not a natural half back and he's just been stop-gapped into that role - Joeys seem to have little for options there.


As a final note, Kings (Lewthwaite) and Scots (Stenberg) each had a fair number of players in the GPS sides - Kings 11, and Scots 9, and what someone said above re: a "quota" system could be the reality of it. It would be a shame if that is the case. On the flipside, Shore and Grammar had 4 and 3, including their halfbacks, which makes this likely. Additionally, Merriman (NSW u16 VC 2009) and Jeong (GPS 3 Reserve 2009) both have their CVs to consider. So, retrospectively, I can understand why things have been chosen the way they have. Doesn't make it right, however.
 
T

Thismybrotha

Guest
As a final note, Kings (Lewthwaite) and Scots (Stenberg) each had a fair number of players in the GPS sides - Kings 11, and Scots 9, and what someone said above re: a "quota" system could be the reality of it. It would be a shame if that is the case. On the flipside, Shore and Grammar had 4 and 3, including their halfbacks, which makes this likely. Additionally, Merriman (NSW u16 VC 2009) and Jeong (GPS 3 Reserve 2009) both have their CVs to consider. So, retrospectively, I can understand why things have been chosen the way they have. Doesn't make it right, however.

Don't think there is a quota system. 2 years ago Kings had 13 boys in the GPS teams, 10 of them being in the 1st XV. I reckon it would've been 11 too had one of their star players not been struck down with a serious illness in term 1 that prevented him from playing any sport. Anyway, regardless of the selection of GPS halves, like you said Waldo Wessels will take the NSW 1 Jersey.

Is it too early to start predicting who will make Aus School Boys? From GPS, I'd say Roach is definite seeing as he was there last year, and Millar, Connor and Latunipulu all have very good chances of making it.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
1. In the GPS 1sts last year, he was thoroughly outclassed by the outstanding Nick Stirzaker (I am a big fan of this boy. Haven't heard his name in colts rugby this year though??)

2. When I've seen Newington Apolosi Latunipulu has been very limited

1. I think Zacker is on a gap year. Watch this space.

2. Obviously you haven't seen many of the Newington or GPS games in the last 2 years. He is a prodigious talent. Certainly you weren't at Newington on Tuesday watching GPS Ones play CAS, else you wouldn't have written what you did.
 
N

Nanai

Guest
1. I think Zacker is on a gap year. Watch this space.

2. Obviously you haven't seen many of the Newington or GPS games in the last 2 years. He is a prodigious talent. Certainly you weren't at Newington on Tuesday watching GPS Ones play CAS, else you wouldn't have written what you did.

Ah, makes sense on Stirzaker. Big talent that boy is.

I didn't see the GPS v CAS ones game on Tuesday, I had to leave halfway through twos suddenly. But I think you take my comment out of context, I know exactly how good Latunipulu is, my comment was that his opportunities were limited when I've seen him due to bad ball from the halves. The Scots rush defense had him well covered by the time the ball got to him and F MacDonald struggled with Bannon's delivery, but it was early in the season and Apo was playing at outside that game (due to Brogan's absence). The Kings game I feel was moreso affected by forwards under the hammer, but Bannon's delivery still suffered. Apo did have some good touches, however, as always.

His outstanding performance in the GPS 1s was no doubt affected by Donlan's fairly speedy delivery, and Wylie's magic hands.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
His outstanding performance in the GPS 1s was no doubt affected by Donlan's fairly speedy delivery, and Wylie's magic hands.

Also affected by his ability to run over CAS players, or run around them - or to give the golden ball for others to do the same. The best performance by a schools inside centre since I saw Robbie Horne play 12 for NSW Schools.

Yes - I said 12.
 
N

Nanai

Guest
That's quite a rap. I rate him too.
What's your viewing schedule from now on Lee? Do you only attend SJC games?

I plan on
3. NC v TSC
4. TKS v SIC
5. TKS v NC
6. NC v SJC
7. TKS v TSC

Looking forward to the cracking centre battles in 3, 5 and 7. It's a shame I can't fit more than one Joeys fixture in... I really tip them for a bit of a resurgence. I think they'll get up on SIC this year.

Also, as a final note on the selection controversies (which I now plan to leave behind), I think it's evident that sometimes it's better to be a good player in a bad team in regards to getting selected in combined schools sides.

And most importantly, there will always be controversial selections, and always be boys who miss out. Even if selectors were independent this would be the case. It's not a perfect system, but the system isn't really the problem, the emphasis put on combined fixtures are. Rare players like Burgess manage to push themselves into the frame otherwise, but Australian rugby relies on CV-building from schoolboys up. Australian Schoolboys is the entry-level to pro rugby for most players. This really must change.

The NZ 20s sides rarely echo the schoolboys sides closely. The Australian 20s sides, however... And look at the results.

Contrast Tyler Bleyendaal (not an NZ Schoolboy) against, say, Matt To'omua in the recent tournament.
The split in the NZ u20 side is 17/9 non-NZ schoolboys to NZ schoolboys.

A final rant. Probably out of place on this thread, but there you have it.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
I understand your view about the negatives of the Oz Schools selection process but mine is opposite. IMO the selection of our national schools team is probably the only thing we do better than the Kiwis in rugby.

Yeah, yeah I know there is a bit of politics in Oz selections and for state sides before that and for group teams before state selections. I know also that the Kiwis beat us more often than not at the schools level (except in the last 3 years). By and large though I think I am right - and Kiwis on their rugby forums agree.

Their annual national schools championships involve individual schools and they have to qualify to get there. Young Kiwis from lesser schools are disadvantaged because the selectors don't get to see them, or not as often as they would like to. Coaches of such schools forward DVDs of their star players in action to the selection panel.

The Kiwis do well against Oz Schools not because of a superior system of selection but despite having an inferior one.

You wrote: The NZ 20s sides rarely echo the schoolboys sides closely. After the U/20 result in Argentina I was going to do an exercise on this for recent years, but I will take your word for it. It would explain the difference between the schools results of recent years and the U/20 results a couple of years later.

The Kiwis have nothing like the Combined States schools team that we have, but the gurus of the individual provinces know who the best players are and once they leave school the cream rises in their system. I doubt if a player like Christian Lealiifano or Justin Turner would get picked for Oz Schools if we used the Kiwi system. Hearsay on rugby forums keeps mentioning that selection bias is even stronger over there than here and that kids have to go to an elite rugby school to have a shot.



As for my viewing habits: I usually go to all the Joeys games but for a couple I miss for one reason or another and I go to all the rep games now I'm retired and have time. I go to all the Oz Schools championships when they are in Sydney or Canberra; so will miss them for the first time in yonks this year because they're in Brisbane. I see all the U/16 tournaments in Sydney too.

After GPS I go to see a lot of Rats games at Rat Park which is not far from where I live and I like to give the ref a bit of curry, something I would never do at a schools game, especially at Joeys where it is frowned upon.

Then comes the malign but inevitable occurrence of summer; so I watch the European games to satisfy my habit until the Super trials start in January.

.
 

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
EDIT2: Lee, I think you could be right there. But between NSW1s and 2s, the ISA and GPS centres should all feature. Chris Ingate is a real talent. I also agree with rugby_man, the GPS 1s do look strong... but they could've, IMHO, been much stronger. The likes of 4/5/6 J Williams, 9 A Stenberg, 11/14 R Streeter, 11/14/15 H Tegart and 6/7 J Graham were all players I'd picked out on the quiet as possible NSW selections (picked out of either GPS 1s or 2s), and that group have either not made the cut, or been selected in GPS 3s (who are very unlikely to get a look into the NSW sides). The way this state's bogus rugby system goes, this could mean the making or breaking of their rugby careers. It's a shame, but hopefully club rugby will be kind to them, and they find some bloody good agents, and we'll see their names again. (Though, let's face it, they'll probably all end up skipping their Sydney Uni classes, dogging training and getting drunk at Manning Bar instead all next year! Private schoolboys...)[/QUOTE]

This is a very good comment. Well done. I hope some of those boys get told something like that.
 
C

catchpole

Guest
Nanai,

An interesting corollary to your excellent review is Nick Phipps (TKS 06). From memory Nick might have made GPS 3rd XV in 2006. 4 years later and Nick is establishing himself at both Sydney University and as a player in the Australian 7's team. I understand he has also trialled with Western force before being selected to represent Australia on the international 7's circuit.

Being a part of Micheal O'connor's squad must place him in the eyes of the Super 15 selectors.

This is a great example of a young player with a good dose of natural ability that has worked exceptionally hard on all aspects of his game to achieve selection together with some superstars of the future in the Australian 7's squad.

There should be many opportunities ahead for Lewthwaite, Stenburg and Merriman if they continue to work hard at their game. Thats why I am a great supporter of Colts Rugby.
 
N

Nanai

Guest
There are no doubt exceptions to the rule, catchpole, and I think you are correct, there will be opportunities ahead for all boys who decide to continue pursuing rugby - even those in their school second and third fifteens. I simply have a problem with the fact that if a player doesn't make combined schools teams, the odds immediately are against them. And I completely agree with you on colts rugby - it's a tremendous platform that is under-used as a realm for talent identification by selectors looking at bestowing higher honors. Too often it's a place to watch the progress of those 'combined schoolboys'-accredited players (who are often already in the Tah academy) as they occupy the next stage. This is why we see so few bolters in the Australian u20s side.

Lee, I take your point that the Australian u20s are overwhelmingly made up of Representative Schoolboy players (and mostly Australian Schoolboys, at that) because our talent-identification system at schools level in Australia is better than that of New Zealand, but I can't say I agree with you. Across New Zealand, the standard of 1st XV rugby is much higher in more schools, and this makes the task difficult for selectors. In Australia we have fewer schools that feature in the process, and a smaller group to draw from, within a framework of elite groupings (GPS NSW/QLD for example). Comparatively, Australia is not that far behind New Zealand in terms of the number of registered rugby players under the age of 18, but New Zealand make effective use of their entire crop, and politics seems much further from their selection process. The point is that the 'New Zealand Schools" side has less weight in New Zealand as a stepping stone to professional rugby.

New Zealand's talent identification operates provincially. There are a variety of age teams within each provincial union (u16, u17, u18, u20) which are selected from both schools and club rugby. No attention is paid to representation from particular groupings (even New Zealand Schools players have been known to miss out on u20 selection from the bigger provinces), large squads are assembled on the basis of merit displayed at any level and go through regular camps and competitions against other unions. Constant tinkering is done, with players demoted and promoted continually. It is from these provincial age-grade sides that New Zealand u20s are chosen from, not from any recognition of selection at schoolboy level.

As much as I enjoy a bit of discussion about who should be selected in certain teams from certain schools, (and I've expressed interest in putting myself forward as a selector) I actually firmly believe that combined GPS/CAS/ISA whatever teams are a blight on our game because they are given too much credit as systems of talent-identification. We really need to go back to the clubs, to more groupings than simply schools, and brings these boys together in large squads in which the cream can rise to the top. I'd propose that we somehow through the clubs put together development squads for a yearly tournament at u16, u17 and u18 level, and that clubs both scout from within their own ranks and from within a schools catchment in a call-up system that is similar to the GPS.

This happens at the junior levels (and there are 3-4 day gala tournaments), but as soon as players reach the age of 16, the divide between club and school (at private schools, mainly) becomes a vast chasm, and schools come into conflict with clubs over letting boys play club fixtures because they don't want to risk them to injury etc etc.

You only need to look at club structures and team lists to do this... Clubs are all immensely strong until u15/u16, and then they usually dissolve into an u19 side as their player base vanishes to the schools. Suddenly the selection window narrows, and selections become politicised.

The NSW Trials usually exclude those who play in the GPS 3rd fifteen, and the CAS don't even have a 3rd fifteen. But aren't there players outside of the combined GPS and CAS windows that would waltz into any of the ISA, CHS, CCC, AICES or Country Schools sides? All of these get represented at the NSW Trials, those boys do not.

This is an unrepresentative and unfair system that is choking our talent pool.
 
P

PhD96

Guest
There are no doubt exceptions to the rule, catchpole, and I think you are correct, there will be opportunities ahead for all boys who decide to continue pursuing rugby - even those in their school second and third fifteens. I simply have a problem with the fact that if a player doesn't make combined schools teams, the odds immediately are against them. And I completely agree with you on colts rugby - it's a tremendous platform that is under-used as a realm for talent identification by selectors looking at bestowing higher honors. Too often it's a place to watch the progress of those 'combined schoolboys'-accredited players (who are often already in the Tah academy) as they occupy the next stage. This is why we see so few bolters in the Australian u20s side.

Lee, I take your point that the Australian u20s are overwhelmingly made up of Representative Schoolboy players (and mostly Australian Schoolboys, at that) because our talent-identification system at schools level in Australia is better than that of New Zealand, but I can't say I agree with you. Across New Zealand, the standard of 1st XV rugby is much higher in more schools, and this makes the task difficult for selectors. In Australia we have fewer schools that feature in the process, and a smaller group to draw from, within a framework of elite groupings (GPS NSW/QLD for example). Comparatively, Australia is not that far behind New Zealand in terms of the number of registered rugby players under the age of 18, but New Zealand make effective use of their entire crop, and politics seems much further from their selection process. The point is that the 'New Zealand Schools" side has less weight in New Zealand as a stepping stone to professional rugby.

New Zealand's talent identification operates provincially. There are a variety of age teams within each provincial union (u16, u17, u18, u20) which are selected from both schools and club rugby. No attention is paid to representation from particular groupings (even New Zealand Schools players have been known to miss out on u20 selection from the bigger provinces), large squads are assembled on the basis of merit displayed at any level and go through regular camps and competitions against other unions. Constant tinkering is done, with players demoted and promoted continually. It is from these provincial age-grade sides that New Zealand u20s are chosen from, not from any recognition of selection at schoolboy level.

As much as I enjoy a bit of discussion about who should be selected in certain teams from certain schools, (and I've expressed interest in putting myself forward as a selector) I actually firmly believe that combined GPS/CAS/ISA whatever teams are a blight on our game because they are given too much credit as systems of talent-identification. We really need to go back to the clubs, to more groupings than simply schools, and brings these boys together in large squads in which the cream can rise to the top. I'd propose that we somehow through the clubs put together development squads for a yearly tournament at u16, u17 and u18 level, and that clubs both scout from within their own ranks and from within a schools catchment in a call-up system that is similar to the GPS.

This happens at the junior levels (and there are 3-4 day gala tournaments), but as soon as players reach the age of 16, the divide between club and school (at private schools, mainly) becomes a vast chasm, and schools come into conflict with clubs over letting boys play club fixtures because they don't want to risk them to injury etc etc.

You only need to look at club structures and team lists to do this... Clubs are all immensely strong until u15/u16, and then they usually dissolve into an u19 side as their player base vanishes to the schools. Suddenly the selection window narrows, and selections become politicised.

The NSW Trials usually exclude those who play in the GPS 3rd fifteen, and the CAS don't even have a 3rd fifteen. But aren't there players outside of the combined GPS and CAS windows that would waltz into any of the ISA, CHS, CCC, AICES or Country Schools sides? All of these get represented at the NSW Trials, those boys do not.

This is an unrepresentative and unfair system that is choking our talent pool.

You seem to have an excellent understanding of the schoolboy progression towards senior Rugby, but I would make two points.

1) Junior Clubs will inevitably experience a dramatic reduction in registrations from U13's, the point at which boys enter year 7. Parents and schools play the most influential roles here, the former believing that boys will become much more time challenged, the latter directly or otherwise, discouraging club Rugby. It's unfortunate, because it means that the great majority of boys will not receive the same standard of coaching and therefore not develop at the same rate. Teachers make up the great majority of 'coaches' and regrettably their only qualification seems to be 'Smart Rugby'. 2) The 'pool of talent' that you refer to, is and always seems to have been, very small. I find it absurd that neither NSW or the ARU have actively promoted Rugby programmes in places where football talent is abundant, for example the Catholic MCC . I had a lengthy conversation with an employee of the ARU some months ago, who was commenting on the defensive characteristics of a well credentialled GPS 1sts team and their RL playing, Catholic school neighbours. He said 'They hit fairly hard in defence, but xxxxxxx absolutely smash, it's chalk and cheese'.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Nothing I have read since my last post convinces me that the Kiwi system of selecting players for their Schools team is superior to that of Oz. It isn't.

There are politics in both countries and I have probably heard more horror stories of Oz lads missing selections in school groupings, state sides and the national side, than most, but many boys in NZ don't get a chance to put themselves in front of the selectors at their national champs because the teams competing are from individual schools not from regions or school groupings.

Nothing I have read since my last post convinces me that Oz rugby does a better job of getting schoolboys, whether selected for Oz Schools teams or not, to the U/20 level. It doesn't. The provincial system in NZ identifies the players better than we do here and they know all the youngsters who missed out on the NZ Schools team.

Phd96 mentions this:
I had a lengthy conversation with an employee of the ARU some months ago, who was commenting on the defensive characteristics of a well credentialled GPS 1sts team and their RL playing, Catholic school neighbours. He said 'They hit fairly hard in defence, but xxxxxxx absolutely smash, it's chalk and cheese'.

Kiwi provincial junior RU players are like the Oz RL players mentioned. The NZ provinces produce young wolves for the IRB U/20 comp much as Oz league clubs produce young wolves for the Toyota Cup.

.
 
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Nanai

Guest
1) Nothing I have read since my last post convinces me that the Kiwi system of selecting players for their Schools team is superior to that of Oz. It isn't.

2) Nothing I have read since my last post convinces me that Oz rugby does a better job of getting schoolboys, whether selected for Oz Schools teams or not, to the U/20 level. It doesn't. The provincial system in NZ identifies the players better than we do here and they know all the youngsters who missed out on the NZ Schools team.

Phd96 mentions this:
I had a lengthy conversation with an employee of the ARU some months ago, who was commenting on the defensive characteristics of a well credentialled GPS 1sts team and their RL playing, Catholic school neighbours. He said 'They hit fairly hard in defence, but xxxxxxx absolutely smash, it's chalk and cheese'.

Kiwi provincial junior RU players are like the Oz RL players mentioned. The NZ provinces produce young wolves for the IRB U/20 comp much as Oz league clubs produce young wolves for the Toyota Cup.

.

1) I would agree completely. My point was simply that in New Zealand there is a higher quality of rugby across a greater number of schools, and with limited time windows it is very hard for selectors to choose their best teams. Kiwis put far less emphasis on their schools team. Our emphasis on schoolboy-level rugby is really biting us in the backside, is my overarching point.

2)
- The underlined statement is the essence of what I was saying. The provincial-based system where there are a number of large squads featuring a wide variety of players is far superior to the Australian system of selecting the u20s, which seems centred around recognising those that have been selected in schoolboys sides.

- Pretty much the entire u20s side this year is composed of the 2008 and 2009 Australian Schoolboys. We're restricting our talent pool to that crop of players. This is why our talent pool is so small.

- Those RL kids that Phd96 refers to may or may not want to play rugby. The player drain in club rugby from u13s out restricts these lads from playing Rugby Union altogether, and because Rugby Union is largely represented in private schools, those players who come from less fortunate socio-economic backgrounds are funnelled into the league system to play their footy, because they can't go anywhere else, with the exception of those select few who may be on scholarships (for whatever reason).

- I think the only answer to this is to fall back on the clubs and make sure they regularly pick rep sides from a variety of backgrounds, locations, etc. The greatest thing about junior rugby in Sydney is that you have private schoolboys and public schoolboys playing side by side on a completely even footing, where talent is what matters (or, if you're lucky, your Dad is the coach).

- As a final note, what credibility do a bunch of individual school-nominated GPS selectors (who are usually school staff) have in deciding whether or not a boy is going to get a good shot at a rugby career or not? Surely you guys can see the imbalance there. Let's take all the heat of combined schoolboys and start building our grassroots properly. Of course, there is the esteemed GPS and Australian Schoolboys tradition (just look at the ARSU website and have a look at the vast number Wallabies that have emerged from Australian Schoolboys) holding things back... Ah well, one can dream!
 

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
Excellent points. It is a shame that selections at schoolboy level have such an influence. When the boys go to colts, those with a good schoolboy cv jump to the head of the queue. Good players languish in lower teams until their ability is recognised. Some drop out disenchanted.

I agree with your point about gps selectors. It is absurd that a few school-nominated men with their inherent biases, end up with such influence on the future careers of the boys. For example, there is an obvious bias against grammar. It takes time and observation to recognise talent. Schoolboy selection on the other hand depends on luck and visibility and the school you attend. Another example. In the gps3s match, Irons from Shore, a good toiled but nothing great, got a pilfer right in front of the gaggle of selectors This sent them into a frenzy of box ticking and jottings in their clipboards, especiaIly Ticehurst the rugby convenor from Shore. Irons was guaranteed to move forward in the selection process from that one act. I am not persuaded these men have the objectivity and knowledge to have such an important role.

There is far too much emphasis on schoolboy rugby as the proper pathway to senior representative careers. It is leading to a narrow talent pool and players giving up because it is too hard to overcome perceptions formed at schoolboy level. The selection process is about lobbying from schools, who you know and reputations formed at under ten level (eg Goodman from Barker). Wake up.

Over to you Nanai.
 

matty_k

Peter Johnson (47)
I agree with your point about gps selectors. It is absurd that a few school-nominated men with their inherent biases, end up with such influence on the future careers of the boys. For example, there is an obvious bias against grammar.
Welcome to the world of junior sport. You only really get administrators who can afford the time or have an interest in spending the time.

I can only really talk about hockey here but I know a number of players in the NSW AHL team who are only there because their club coach or father is on the selection committee.
 

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
Yep. Been seeing it for the past 5 years. Apparently, ability is the least needed criterion.
 

Informer

Ward Prentice (10)
Like it or not the schools system is here to stay. The encouraging aspect is the development of ISA, CHS and Country who have been genuinely competitive this year. To my mind it is best to work with the system and the real issue is to make sure that players are chosen on merit, not which school they go to. While GPS have dominated this year it is hard to argue that don't deserve a lions share of the places in the NSW teams. Hopefully the selectors will give a fair go to the boys identified in other forums from CHS and ISA. Having an ISA coach is a good start and suggests lessons have been learnt. If nothing else the lack of boys in Joeys socks running around during the week indicates at least one school no longer gets more than their fair share. I look forward to seeing the full teams lists to see if the selectors have got close to objectivity. Watching them at Knox they all seemed like decents blokes so you can only hope.
 
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