NSW AAGPS 2024

[CasualObserver]

What does PONI hope to achieve? Doesn't it just exacerbate the existing bias towards early developers?

 

[The Cleaner]

On another note, I heard Wallabies did reach out to Keary but he chose rugby league. Cheika wanted him even reached out to him when he was still at Oakhill. Sometimes, boys prefer to play league regardless of available rugby Union pathway/schemes.

 

[The Soaring Eagle]

Been away for a couple days, just curious as to the score if the presidents game? Just curious, cheers.

 

[Squidlips]

19 to 10

 

[Quick Hands]

View attachment 19753
View attachment 19754
Schools 1 and 2.
Are we happy with these teams or are there any poor exclusions/selections???

Thanks for posting

Breakdown by association is interesting.
GPS - 20
CAS - 14
ISA - 10
CHS - 2
CCC - 0

Without reflecting on any boy involved, and in complete acknowledgement of the excellent rugby programs run across the schools which these boys attend, I think it's concerning for the game that the independent sector provides such a high percentage.

Consider:
Secondary school population in NSW by sector
State - 57%
Catholic systemic- 24%
Independent - 19%

Also noting that there are 7 specialist sports high schools in NSW which run elite sport programs Endeavour (Sydney South), The Hills (Sydney North West), Hunter (Newcastle), Illawarra (Wollongong), Matraville (Inner South East Sydney), Narrabeen (Northern Beaches), Westfields (Sydney South West). Three of those Hills, Westfields and Hunter offer a standalone rugby program, Narrabeen offers a combined league/union/touch program, while the others don't offer rugby at all.

While (sadly) I would never as things stand expect the 3 sectors to provide rugby players in accordance with the percentages above, it's only a generation ago that the state system provided just under 50% of players in state and national rugby teams.

Australian Schools Squad 1980

Rick Allen, Ku-ring-gai High School NSW
Darren Anderson, The Southport School QLD
Wally Barnier, Shore School NSW
Paul Bowman, Waverley College NSW
Greg Burrow, Shore School NSW
Ian Donaldson, Pennant Hills High School NSW
Robert Featherston, Sydney Boys High School NSW
Damien Frawley, Gregory Terrace QLD
Stephen Halliwell, Northmead High School NSW
Andrew James, James Ruse Agric High School NSW
Andrew Jones, Chatswood High NSW
Grant Killen, Maroubra Bay High NSW
David Knox, Matraville High School NSW
Tom Lawton, The Southport School QLD
Cameron Lillicrap, Brisbane Grammar School QLD
Matthew Lindley, Canberra College (Phillip College/Stirling College) ACT
Geoff Manteit, Gregory Terrace QLD
Darren McCarthy, Marist College, Ashgrove QLD
Michael Murray, St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill NSW
Brett Papworth, Epping Boys High School NSW
Ken Smith, Matraville High School NSW
Steve Tuynman, Hunters Hill High School NSW

 

[Syd]

I think this is right, unfortunately Rugby is a niche within a niche in Australia. The decision to put the product behind the Foxtel paywall a few decades back meant the country lost touch with the teams outside the private school bubble.

 

[Syd]

RA needs to re engage the public system, not an easy task considering the momentum and $.

 

[runningrugbyrules]

I think this is right, unfortunately Rugby is a niche within a niche in Australia. The decision to put the product behind the Foxtel paywall a few decades back meant the country lost touch with the teams outside the private school bubble.

1000% correct

 

[gus titler]

Very proud of the Mudgee mudcrab (#17 pres A’s) after his strong performances this wrekend. Very versatile around the field and a havoc to handle through the middle. hopefully he will find himself in a schools jumper. Other outstanding performances go to henry Troy Sam Jorgensen, Sam jones, jack plamondon and hasani Bloomfield.

 

[sundayeightpm]

Good (indy school) Joeys boys (most of 'em) ;-). Although the mud crab sounds like he could have been a high school boy in another time?

 

[CasualObserver]

Given the private school bias through PONI, NSW Schoolboys and the pathways system, why would kids in the public system put themselves through the frustration?

 

[sundayeightpm]

This is a great analysis - and a pretty good reality check. To your point however - a lot has changed:
- 1980, 22% of students were enrolled in private schools, 78% were enrolled in public schools
- 2023 36% of students in Australia attended private schools, while 64% attend public schools.

Which is not a massive change. No doubt the rise of Rugby league and AFL in the public schools has also reduced the athlete pool.

No matter how much you slice it though - this is a massive change for the game, and the make up of the Rep teams. I attend both days of the Opens NSW trial, and must say that there were plenty of country and CHS boys who looked like they deserved a chance for higher honours?

What percentage of coaches, selectors and administrators were involved with State Schools in 1980 v today I wonder?

 

[FastNFurious]

Given the private school bias through PONI, NSW Schoolboys and the pathways system, why would kids in the public system put themselves through the frustration?

That’s a bit simplistic, the majority of players are at private schools and they run the best comps. It’s hard to be the best unless you are competing against the best. Makes a further mockery of PONI, take last years best and protect them against competing against the challengers for this season…. Anti competitive .

 

[TriggerBall]

Agree - great analysis @Quick Hands and follow up email from you @sundayeightpm.
With the RA Board heavily weighted to the Mosman set, there’s sadly a top-down bias to the private schools.
Would be great to see a broader cross- section of voices there.
Might help in understanding what needs to be done to do better in the battle against league and AFL

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

The change towards Sports High schools has also affected this. Sports talent isnt as evenly spread across all of the CHS anymore.

 

[sundayeightpm]

Yeah, its interesting - I can spend a lot of time dong this analysis ;-) - it is partly my day job too. This one is interesting also...if we look at the sprint and the long jump/triple jumps as the basis of good athletic potential (I don't want to over simplify this), then lets see how the High Schools perform v Private Schools. My initial, very brief analysis says most of the good athletes are actually in the High School system?

 

[Soupnasty]

What does PONI hope to achieve? Doesn't it just exacerbate the existing bias towards early developers?

My first thoughts on this were that, but on consideration it remains a terrible name (but that aside)

It does the opposite of exacerbating the bias or protecting players. In fact, it puts them on the side line, while the next up in their position gets the opportunity to show themselves. So, instead of every rep team having the same players picked and passed through, you get to look at a broader range of players, and those players get an opportunity to show their worth. By the time the full quota of 40 poni players is in place, they will all have a crack at each other to make the final team.

If you're considered the third best 7, for example, in previous years, you barely got a look in. This year, you get your chance, and if you take it, you ultimately get to play against the number 1. No one in the poni squad is guaranteed anything other than a shot at the trial for the final team. Anyone not on the Poni team can still make that final team and is currently getting the chance to prove they should get the shot—in previous years, they might not have.

 

[sundayeightpm]

From a bit of research I've done I want to clear up some stuff.

Thanks for this - well understood. The one para I am curious how everyone feels is this "For the likes of Makasini, Rodwell, Bassingswaite. Because of their tight affiliation with league clubs, they will participate in no further REP rugby."

Strangely, they were all allowed to trial for CIS and State League, and were available for selection. Mmmm? Is our arrogance and hubris as a game affecting us also?

 

[jack andrews]

I understand what your saying but I believe it is the boys decision and the clubs they are with. There are plenty more league players in the GPS, but the boys I've mentioned here are on the big stuff, so don't bother participating in Rep Rugby UNION, when the pen and paper says they are staying in league after school.

 

[BananaMan]

All of this is understood, there must be a further element to this though where by players not named in PONI or NSW Schools teams and not injured must have been given a golden ticket straight into Gen Blue U18. Anyways, all reinforces that PONI and other forms of golden tickets are dumb policy…. Play and compete for a spot on equal terms, one in, all in. Play god damn it, play.

You make a good point - is there a Gen Blue U18 Academy 'training' team this year or do they go straight from the weekend's NSWSRU Selection Trials to PONI?

If Walsh has now signed with Manly does that mean he loses his PONI spot come July 12? There appear to be boys who played in Feb's Waratah games who aren't in PONI, we can assume most of them will be added to PONI leaving even less spots for the boys trying to break in.

Schoolboy rugby is a tough business...hats off to all the boys playing and trying their hearts out every weekend. The quality of rugby that was seen across Thursday and Friday from all the teams, not just GPS, was outstanding. Hats off to CAS 1 who surprised many people and the result would have been different had they converted some of their tries.