NSW AAGPS 2024

[Soupnasty]

What does PONI hope to achieve? Doesn't it just exacerbate the existing bias towards early developers?

My first thoughts on this were that, but on consideration it remains a terrible name (but that aside)

It does the opposite of exacerbating the bias or protecting players. In fact, it puts them on the side line, while the next up in their position gets the opportunity to show themselves. So, instead of every rep team having the same players picked and passed through, you get to look at a broader range of players, and those players get an opportunity to show their worth. By the time the full quota of 40 poni players is in place, they will all have a crack at each other to make the final team.

If you're considered the third best 7, for example, in previous years, you barely got a look in. This year, you get your chance, and if you take it, you ultimately get to play against the number 1. No one in the poni squad is guaranteed anything other than a shot at the trial for the final team. Anyone not on the Poni team can still make that final team and is currently getting the chance to prove they should get the shot—in previous years, they might not have.

 

[sundayeightpm]

From a bit of research I've done I want to clear up some stuff.

Thanks for this - well understood. The one para I am curious how everyone feels is this "For the likes of Makasini, Rodwell, Bassingswaite. Because of their tight affiliation with league clubs, they will participate in no further REP rugby."

Strangely, they were all allowed to trial for CIS and State League, and were available for selection. Mmmm? Is our arrogance and hubris as a game affecting us also?

 

[jack andrews]

I understand what your saying but I believe it is the boys decision and the clubs they are with. There are plenty more league players in the GPS, but the boys I've mentioned here are on the big stuff, so don't bother participating in Rep Rugby UNION, when the pen and paper says they are staying in league after school.

 

[BananaMan]

All of this is understood, there must be a further element to this though where by players not named in PONI or NSW Schools teams and not injured must have been given a golden ticket straight into Gen Blue U18. Anyways, all reinforces that PONI and other forms of golden tickets are dumb policy…. Play and compete for a spot on equal terms, one in, all in. Play god damn it, play.

You make a good point - is there a Gen Blue U18 Academy 'training' team this year or do they go straight from the weekend's NSWSRU Selection Trials to PONI?

If Walsh has now signed with Manly does that mean he loses his PONI spot come July 12? There appear to be boys who played in Feb's Waratah games who aren't in PONI, we can assume most of them will be added to PONI leaving even less spots for the boys trying to break in.

Schoolboy rugby is a tough business...hats off to all the boys playing and trying their hearts out every weekend. The quality of rugby that was seen across Thursday and Friday from all the teams, not just GPS, was outstanding. Hats off to CAS 1 who surprised many people and the result would have been different had they converted some of their tries.

 

[jack andrews]

There is no further U18 Waratahs v U18 Queensland this year, unlike previous years where they play at the end of the season.

 

[BananaMan]

Thanks for confirming, that statement was really trying to ascertain whether there would be a 'training' academy, ie, games aside, if there isn't an U18 Gen Blue this year to improve their skills and reward players in some way does this mean they're expected to go from playing school/clubs straight to PONI. That's a huge ask.

 

[Soupnasty]

In the spirit of finding positives etc

The commentators on NSW Rugby TV for the school games were excellent.

 

[Cauliflower Ear]

Does anyone have statistics on how many PONI players are from outside NSW? You would think this would be a predominantly NSW-based initiative as the player retention rate is higher for union in QLD.

Seems like a very confusing system and a knee-jerk/rushed solution, but I believe this is just the foundation for a pathway to retaining players who have grown up playing union. There is no doubt the PONI system will undergo changes and tweaks to better suit the development of PONI and non-PONI players.

Remember, if the Waratahs and Wallabies weren't so sh*t, players would have a lot more pride to be selected into these academies/teams. It starts at the top, schoolboy rugby union has never had so much talent.

 

[sundayeightpm]

Players of national interest is national mate - of the current 25, nsw are between 7-12. Gut feel is that the final 40 will be around 40-50% nsw, 30-40% from qld. 10-15% from act and rest from vic, wa typically. Keep in mind, this list will also come from players outside of school programs also…such as club land etc. however, don’t confuse this with the best players in the country ;-)

 

[FastNFurious]

My first thoughts on this were that, but on consideration it remains a terrible name (but that aside).

If you are protected from competition then there is a bias towards you. Players that might challenge you for your spot don’t get that opportunity in a rep format. Unless players are dropped from PONI then there isn’t an argument to say there is no bias to them.

 

[Soupnasty]

So what's your solution?

If they weren't in PONI and were selected in the rep teams just now, everyone would be saying, "Same kids getting selected! There is a bias to the kids selected previously."

And you do get dropped from PONI at the end.

 

[tight5]

Players of national interest is national mate

Interesting, considering all these stat's looking in the challenge would/then is selectors/selection process? Strategy, what kind of player you need and game plan. PONI is no different to League clubs signing kids at Matts and contracts void once they turn 17

 

[sundayeightpm]

Very true - selectors/selection process sounds so easy ;-). There is never a situation where everyone is happy. However, the real challenge with Junior sport is development and identifying future potential v current capability. If the match is played right now, then current capability is the obvious barometer i.e. current form. However, in junior sport (especially contact sports) future potential is very challenging...and the PONI concept, and academies must have with an eye on the future, surely?

The bottom line is - I don't have faith that the current selectors and selection process is about identifying future potential and return. I believe it has become a process that is a boggy swamp of nepotism, old school tie, bias and 'thats the way we always do it'...sprinkled on top with some luck and experience...where everyone stands around 3 months later and comments 'they were a damn good side, they just got unlucky and lost by a converted try"

And respectfully, I do believe the volunteers in the role do a pretty bloody good job, given the resources they have and the environment they operate in.

 

[Hankspank]

From a bit of research I've done I want to clear up some stuff.

That is a perfect breakdown of how it works Jack so well done. The doors don't close and always remain open. Telling a 17/18 year old to think about the job / career opportunities rugby can offer is antiquated. I'm speaking with bias but my son made the academies & junior Australian reps, didn't go to a GPS/CAS school and played representative League. League wanted him to stay, he wanted to stay with union. If you love it, stick with it

 

[Hankspank]

Honest question.

What is the pinnacle a schoolboy can attain?

Australian U/18s Joker. Combined of Schoolboy players and Colts players from around the country.

 

[sundayeightpm]

That is a perfect breakdown of how it works Jack so well done. The doors don't close and always remain open. Telling a 17/18 year old to think about the job / career opportunities rugby can offer is antiquated. I'm speaking with bias but my son made the academies & junior Australian reps, didn't go to a GPS/CAS school and played representative League. League wanted him to stay, he wanted to stay with union. If you love it, stick with it

Thats' not bias at all - its a great story, and credit to your young man and your family. Sadly, this is a very rare story that will potentially become even less common without a rethink and some changes.

 

[tight5]

So what's your solution?

Test them

Very true - selectors/selection process sounds so easy ;-). There is never a situation where everyone is happy. However, the real challenge with Junior sport is development and identifying future potential v current capability. If the match is played right now, then current capability is the obvious barometer i.e. current form. However, in junior sport (especially contact sports) future potential is very challenging...and the PONI concept, and academies must have with an eye on the future, surely?

The bottom line is - I don't have faith that the current selectors and selection process is about identifying future potential and return. I believe it has become a process that is a boggy swamp of nepotism, old school tie, bias and 'thats the way we always do it'...sprinkled on top with some luck and experience...where everyone stands around 3 months later and comments 'they were a damn good side, they just got unlucky and lost by a converted try"

And respectfully, I do believe the volunteers in the role do a pretty bloody good job, given the resources they have and the environment they operate in.

Make the coaches/selectors accountable put out what they're looking for

1. Set player minimum standards, bench, squat, deadline, catch/pass, tackle/contact, bronco

2. XFactor a player brings is then discussed prior to selection as this is subjective.

 

[sundayeightpm]

Kinda - I like your thunking. Talent identification and realisation is a little more complex than that these days - and very well understood across many sporting codes around the world. There are already a set of physical tests conducted for the Academy lads, including strength, speed, flexibility etc - but the bigger determinant is actually the mental component. Character identification and development is where the opportunity is (think - AFL Draft). However for this to be really effective, the club, state and national COE's and organisations need to have a very clear picture of what they want and need. The AB's nailed this off the back of their review around 2003-2007. They knew precisely what mindset and character traits they needed and how to develop them from a young age.

 

[tight5]

Yes more complex, but thats the actual issue, everyones talking about how complex it is but working away from solutions

Not the Academy lads more for those who are going into all school trials etc similar to US combine.

Mental toughness and IQ also needs to be measured.

With club/school/state/national that is exactly the problem - disconnection.

 

[sundayeightpm]

Sweet - I think you and I are pretty much aligned!