November Tour Squad

[Scotty]

The incumbents from Welingon:

James O'Connor
Lachie Turner
Adam Ashley-Cooper
Berrick Barnes
Drew Mitchell
Matt Giteau
Will Genia
George Smith
David Pocock
Rocky Elsom
Mark Chisholm
James Horwill
Ben Alexander
Tatafu Polota-Nau
Benn Robinson

v the next off the rank:

Kurtley Beale
Digby Ione
Stirling Mortlock
Rob Horne
Peter Hynes
Quade Cooper
Luke Burgess
Wycliffe Palu
Phil Waugh
Mitchell Chapman
Dean Mumm
Nathan Sharpe
Al Baxter
Stephen Moore
Matt Dunning

When you look at Noddy's two teams there isn't much between them. This is due to one of two reasons:

1. We are starting to get some depth or,
2. We are average across the board

Probably a bit of both.

Cyclo,

I'm with you regarding AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). He must now surely be rated as our best back and most dangerous runner. Build the backline around him at 13, rather than use him to fill whatever spot is needed. I don't know where that leaves Stirlo, but to be honest, I don't really care - he needs to be moved on from the captaincy anyway.

 

[fatprop]

The incumbents from Welingon:

James O'Connor
Lachie Turner
Adam Ashley-Cooper
Berrick Barnes
Drew Mitchell
Matt Giteau
Will Genia
George Smith
David Pocock
Rocky Elsom
Mark Chisholm
James Horwill
Ben Alexander
Tatafu Polota-Nau
Benn Robinson

v the next off the rank:

Kurtley Beale
Digby Ione
Stirling Mortlock
Rob Horne
Peter Hynes
Quade Cooper
Luke Burgess
Wycliffe Palu
Phil Waugh
Mitchell Chapman
Dean Mumm
Nathan Sharpe
Al Baxter
Stephen Moore
Matt Dunning

When you look at Noddy's two teams there isn't much between them.

and that is the problem, lots of average, not enough test quality units

 

[ACT Crusader]

I'm of the view that Digby is the centre 'heir apparent' more than AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). I think we would have seen Digby in 13 if he were fit and Mortlock got hurt.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is the best FB in the squad and with Shepherd just a foodbill (shame for him), there is IMO a big drop off in steadiness and class to others (ie Rabbit, Turner or Mitchell).

On Mowen, while he was a good LO taker and option, I think there are question marks over his workrate. I can think of only one real standout game where he was really effective in the tight and getting around the park. I'm not talking about flashy stuff, but just doing the other core things effectively.

 

[Spook]

I'd be keen on Ioane playing outside centre if Oz had another big powerful winger..which we don't . Given the need for a bit of size, I'd like to see Ioane, Mortlock and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) all in the starting backline to get over the advantage line and secure possession...that and a big number 8 who is fit and firing.

I think the injection of Ioane, Palu, Mortlock and even Sharpe into the Ozzie side will add some much needed running power. However, what I don't want to see is Mortlock being used exclusivley to bash it up. It's too easy to read and Oz has done it far too much in the past. Last year against France in France both AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Ioane blasted holes in the French midfield.

 

[Newb]

I'd be keen on Ioane playing outside centre if Oz had another big powerful winger..which we don't . Given the need for a bit of size, I'd like to see Ioane, Mortlock and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) all in the starting backline to get over the advantage line and secure possession.

i've been really impressed with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s consistency. definitely the best of the backs and most consistent. but having said that, his best talent right now is making runs and exploiting gaps in the defense (which he's great at). he's still playing too much like a wing or fullback for an outside center for me.

i'd like to see him do a better job of setting up runners outside or inside him. too many solo jaunts that don't materialize. but he also seems to lack support too often, so can't blame him there. i think he'll develop these skills, but he could be just as effective at fb or on the wing. could digby do a better job of the same thing? i'm not convinced right now, as he seems like a better candidate at wing than AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

spook i think giving your lineup a try would be worth it. with kicking and counter play being so important in rugby right now, the bigger back line seems to be pretty effective. the boks and b&i lions are pretty big across the back. smaller speedster types aren't needed as much if you're not always running it back from deep in space.

and can we PLEASE get some damn runners from off the line and on inside cuts!!!! the monotony is awful right now.

 

[fatprop]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) lacks the Mortlock punch at the moment. We need someone out there that can be given the ball when little is on, he will truck it forward, suck in a few defenders and set up.

And AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) seems incapable of passing anywhere near the goal line.

 

[Spook]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) definitely has some way to go to be the complete centre.

 

[Lee Grant]

On Mowen, while he was a good LO taker and option, I think there are question marks over his workrate. I can think of only one real standout game where he was really effective in the tight and getting around the park. I'm not talking about flashy stuff, but just doing the other core things effectively.

I would have disagreed with this after the S14. I had him tagged as playing a light game before the S14 this year but he surprised me as I watched him intermittently in isolation a few times at the SFS.

But Deans overlooked him before his injury and I have to conclude that I am wrong and you are right.



Yeah AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has been our banker even though there is not a lot of money in the Wallaby account. When Mortlock and Ioane are back he will have to move back to 15. As others have said: he is our best fullback - and nothwithstanding that it is not his best position.

What depth we have at 13 - and how handy would it be to have a similar situation at 10 and 12.

This will be a big tour for Mortlock. If he doesn't keep succeeding with his old power game he could lose his place next year. Deans will have noticed a lot of players holding on too long in order to play in the next RWC and has been aware before any of us ever were that Mortlock has to be dealt with pragmatically.

My guess is that he will get a gig offshore and not play for the Wallabies after the EOYT; but I was wrong about Gregan.

 

[Scotty]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) lacks the Mortlock punch at the moment. We need someone out there that can be given the ball when little is on, he will truck it forward, suck in a few defenders and set up.

And AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) seems incapable of passing anywhere near the goal line.

Mortlock lacks the Mortlock punch at the moment.

 

[Lee Grant]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is not a renowned user of the ball on attack. He is more of a runner. The same can be said of Mortlock.

We would all like our 13s to be multi-talented, but outside centres like Brian O'Driscoll and the younger Jauzion when he played there are rare beasts. Guscott was another and for Oz: Little and Herbert had "all the skils" in their years of pomp.

We have not seen a full season of a healthy Horne in the position. Of all the Oz players running around in the Super14 he is the one most likely outside centre to develop the ability to combine the elusive run with delivery of the golden ball. This opinion is based on his schoolboy exploits and one hopes that with a more sympathetic backline at the Tahs next year he can take that kind of game into the Super14.

 

[TheRiddler]

We have not seen a full season of a healthy Horne in the position. Of all the Oz players running around in the Super14 he is the one most likely outside centre to develop the ability to combine the elusive run with delivery of the golden ball. This opinion is based on his schoolboy exploits and one hopes that with a more sympathetic backline at the Tahs next year he can take that kind of game into the Super14.

I'm a big fan of Horne but my one concern is his size. Obviously he is still a young fella and has probably got a bit of physical maturity still to go. Admittedly, I havent seen him since his layoff so maybe he has bulked up a little. He is listed on the Tahs site as being 88kg - not saying that he needs to go to the 100kg+ level of Mortlock but even O'Driscoll is 95kg.

 

[Spook]

Australia have had big 13s for a while now.

 

[fatprop]

We are ending up with a group of talented dwarves and then wonder why we can't score tries against the ABs

 

[Scotty]

Do you really think the reason we didn't score much against them was because our backline is too small?

 

[fatprop]

We lacked penetration across the field from phase play, it was boys against men.

 

[Biffo]

I'm a big fan of Horne but my one concern is his size. Obviously he is still a young fella and has probably got a bit of physical maturity still to go. Admittedly, I havent seen him since his layoff so maybe he has bulked up a little. He is listed on the Tahs site as being 88kg - not saying that he needs to go to the 100kg+ level of Mortlock but even O'Driscoll is 95kg.

Horne is bigger than his measurements say, if you know what I mean. A truly expert mate of mine in Brisbane went to see him play his first game there. He was eager to see Horne in the flesh, having been highly impressed by him on TV. He told me that he was very surprised, when the Tahs came out to warm up, by how big Horne is. He told me something about ratios of muscle, fat, weight, height and other things that I couldn't understand and assured me Horne is plenty big enough for outside centre.

Scarfie, does this enhance my claim to the Robbie Deans award?

 

[RugbyReg]

We lacked penetration across the field from phase play, it was boys against men.

perhaps that explains why we continue to run towards the sideline instead of manning up and running straight.

 

[fatprop]

We lacked penetration across the field from phase play, it was boys against men.

perhaps that explains why we continue to run towards the sideline instead of manning up and running straight.

The Tahs made forward momentum in the S14 by having the support players on the runners hips driving through to get over the advantage line; there are ways.

But passing across a backline, 10m away from the defensive line is not one of them.

 

[RugbyReg]

well.....enjoy Berrick then you Tah fans!

 

[Biffo]

well.....enjoy Berrick then you Tah fans!

Bit of a worry, isn't it? Tahs have outstanding attackers in Turner, Horne and Beale and add Mitchell. Looks like they are going to develop a real attacking game to capitalize on their terrific forward pack, doesn't it? Then they go and buy Barnes. Ten man rugby, anyone? :