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New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014

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Spewn

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
Seb V said:
Agree Pilfers is not the problem. A lack of breakdown defence, Aggression at the breakdown, Accuracy at the breakdown all a problem. Hooper probably the wallabies best at this attributes - Everyone else needs to step up drastically.
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Disagree totally. When you are under pressure defensively and need to get possession, you need someone good and hard over the ball. Kane's saving of the first test is an example. And that sort of player demands accuracy in the clean out. Hooper is not the player, but crikey he is a gutsy, passionate player, and a great ball runner.
 
boyo

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
KOB1987 said:
I think one thing with locks is that often they are momentum players..i.e. they play well when the team is playing well, and this is a lot to do with their responsibilities around the park..

so to that end you could argue a case for the locks that were on the field on Saturday as the whole side was going backwards, but more particularly the locks in the non-performing super XV sides, so Horwill/Simmons/Jones/Neville appeared inferior to and/or not as in form as those of the best performing sides, so Douglas/Skelton/Carter..

there is a similar dynamic for the 6 & 8 but backrowers are more individual players so can they look good when the team looks bad and vice versa..
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The number times that I saw the ball being passed to flat-footed receivers would make a coach pull their hair out. By the time that the ball-carrier goes into contact he has bugger-all momentum, and thus doesn't make ground.
 
Viking

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Spewn said:
Disagree totally. When you are under pressure defensively and need to get possession, you need someone good and hard over the ball. Kane's saving of the first test is an example. And that sort of player demands accuracy in the clean out. Hooper is not the player, but crikey he is a gutsy, passionate player, and a great ball runner.
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Hooper did it last Test match. After To'omua's kick which didn't find touch - NZ heavy on counter-attack, Hooper breaks momentum with a crucial turn-over. He isn't Pocock standard but he is capable.
 
Spewn

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
Seb, that was one in many matches and he kept his feet only because an AB player propped him up from falling sideways. But he is desperately trying and that is more than can be said for others.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Spewn said:
Disagree totally. When you are under pressure defensively and need to get possession, you need someone good and hard over the ball. Kane's saving of the first test is an example. And that sort of player demands accuracy in the clean out. Hooper is not the player, but crikey he is a gutsy, passionate player, and a great ball runner.
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So how was Hooper the top test rugby pilferer in 2013?

The fact of the matter is this Spewn. When the team makes a dominant tackle, if you are a 7 coming across to the breakdown running the correct, most efficient line to get there first, you merely need to side step over the breakdown to make a pilfer, whilst your opposition player needs to double back around to go through the gate, because the location of contact he was running to is now 1 meter in front of where the breakdown has ended up due to a dominant tackle. That gives you the advantage. Otherwise you are relying on poor support to give you the opportunity. Less of those come when the team is getting over the gain line on you.

The other way is the tackle, up and pilfer combo, but that relies on poor support, which is a factor out of your control.
 
Spewn

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
Train Without a Station said:
So how was Hooper the top test rugby pilferer in 2013?

The fact of the matter is this Spewn. When the team makes a dominant tackle, if you are a 7 coming across to the breakdown running the correct, most efficient line to get there first, you merely need to side step over the breakdown to make a pilfer, whilst your opposition player needs to double back around to go through the gate, because the location of contact he was running to is now 1 meter in front of where the breakdown has ended up due to a dominant tackle. That gives you the advantage. Otherwise you are relying on poor support to give you the opportunity. Less of those come when the team is getting over the gain line on you.

The other way is the tackle, up and pilfer combo, but that relies on poor support, which is a factor out of your control.
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I accept absolutely that passive defence makes it harder, but Hooper in my opinion is not genuinely good over the ball. I would prefer a George Smith ability.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Spewn said:
I accept absolutely that passive defence makes it harder, but Hooper in my opinion is not genuinely good over the ball. I would prefer a George Smith ability.
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Yet he still managed more pilfers than any other test player in 2013, and the second highest in Super Rugby in 2014. How much pill do you need to steal to be considered good?
 
Viking

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Spewn said:
I accept absolutely that passive defence makes it harder, but Hooper in my opinion is not genuinely good over the ball. I would prefer a George Smith ability.
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A year ago I would have agreed with you about his ability over the ball. but I think Hooper has progressed a lot this year. His strength and aggression is much better then it was say back when he played against the Lions. Sure he is no George Smith but his breakdown work is pretty bloody good. Re-watch the last 2 AB's games - he cleans out well and generally does a good job at the ruck.
 
Spewn

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
Seb V said:
A year ago I would have agreed with you about his ability over the ball. but I think Hooper has progressed a lot this year. His strength and aggression is much better then it was say back when he played against the Lions. Sure he is no George Smith but his breakdown work is pretty bloody good. Re-watch the last 2 AB's games - he cleans out well and generally does a good job at the ruck.
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I agree he has improved. I have no criticism of him otherwise. He is fantastic. I just prefer to have someone getting his hands on the ball to get possession back.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Spewn said:
I agree he has improved. I have no criticism of him otherwise. He is fantastic. I just prefer to have someone getting his hands on the ball to get possession back.
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Just out of curiosity, how did Pocock go with that in the 2012 test season prior to his injury?
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Seb V said:
Well to be fair he still tackled like a mad-man possessed. And I don't re-call any 50+ beatings while Pocock was on the field.

TWAS ..You should know better then to go after my beloved Pocock ;)
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I don't remember there being any 50+ beatings when Robbie Deans was coach either.

It doesn't really mean much.
 
Spewn

Spewn

Alex Ross (28)
Braveheart81 said:
I don't remember there being any 50+ beatings when Robbie Deans was coach either.

It doesn't really mean much.
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Why not? Australia won't win until there are players harder and more effective at the breakdown - from props to locks to flankers. I'd prefer someone like Pocock to Hooper.
 
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