New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014

[BPC]

@Pfitzy - I'm not looking to start an argument and I appreciate your point about making assumptions based on my own experiences from NZ so I'll just make a couple of points and move on:

Palu - just go back the last 4 or 5 years and have a look at how you guys have rated him against SA & NZ. He isn't consistently the player you need or want him to be. And not when it matters.

Pocock - it's not about the rules of the game. He just a hard, strong player who can make grown men look like boys. I don't think you get that so much with Hooper. To be fair, Hooper brings his own set of headaches for oppositions as seen by his try on Sat but as a fan, those headaches aren't as hard to handle as those Pocock presents.

Putting the shoulder in. In the last few years you've had the Reds and the Waratahs win the Super Rugby title. These guys know how to tackle. Super Rugby is obviously a big step down from Tests but it doesn't change how you tackle. The cross-field kicks, shooting out of the line etc are more back-line defensive problems. My post was more about forwards, in tight, doing the hard yards taking the hit-ups, dropping runners and driving them back. That's about mongrel and attitude and desire. I saw one big tackle from the Wallabies - I think it was from To'omua - but the forwards just didn't seem to relish the rough stuff. They did it at times but I don't know that they love it. Maybe a silly observation and it's totally unfounded cos I don't know any of them but yeah - it's just my observation. You really miss Moore and Pocock at the moment but I can't think of anyone else in the Wallaby frame who is in the same mould.

They lacked a hard edged player showing them the way forward. The Tahs had JacPot. The Wallabies had Vickerman, Finegan, Poidiven and no one at present. Dwyer has suggested Jones but I don't think he is there yet. Fardy showed glimpses last year but not this year. Horwill is probably closest, other than Pocock which brings a second set of headaches in terms of dropping Hooper who has a different skillset which is desperately needed given Paul is too busy tackling and Fardy too busy hitting rucks to cart the ball. This is where our locks should be stepping up but aren't. We aren't going to consistently bend the line with only Hooper and Slipper, and occasionally Kepu, our only threats with the ball in the forwards.

 

[cyclopath]

No need for sarcastic comments. If he ran straight at the player that would be stupid and he'd be rightly derided for running at the man, not trying to beat him like people said about McCabe.

There's a difference between always moving laterally first, and looking to get past the man by being direct and then veering your run off the shoulder.

The criticisms of Beale are that he moves sideways, then passes, allowing the defender to drift off him.

Settle down, just having a laugh. But in seriousness, they were all wafting sideways. It's a cancer.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think one thing with locks is that often they are momentum players..i.e. they play well when the team is playing well, and this is a lot to do with their responsibilities around the park..

Ye olde chicken and egg

 

[BPC]

To'omua has been doing much the same all test season. Just no one seems to notice as much as when Beale does it.

To be fair, lateral movement is a slightly bigger problem at 10 than 12. Very slightly.

And To'omua can tackle, unlike Beale's passivity in defence. The kicking has been a bit shit, I'll admit.

I'd drop Beale before To'omua.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It seems so.

The more popular players seem to be able to be completely mediocre and it's ignored because people like them.

Even To'omua's missed touchfinder has been excused by several on the basis of us chasing the game so he was looking for extra metres.

NOT f*cking me - unf*ckin*forgiveable.
You cannot have a line out closer than 5m - someone should implant that in his ear with a wildlife tagging gun: should help him remember.
And then, as the commentators (Kearns?) observed the next one was taken with less ceremony than you might expect in the local touch game on Sunday morning.
This is indicative of the attitude, IMO.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'd drop Beale before To'omua.

So would I.

Hopefully To'omua's game improves with Phipps and Foley at 9 and 10.

Off the bench I think Beale is more likely to come on at 12 than 10 because he gets our attack going better from there and works very well with Phipps and Foley.

His defense is less of a liability if he's fresh playing against tired players later in the game too.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Settle down, just having a laugh. But in seriousness, they were all wafting sideways. It's a cancer.

A bloody virulent one too.
I don't care how much healthy tissue you have to take we need a wide excisional margin. Im thinking 2m all round.

 

[Braveheart81]

NOT f*cking me - unf*ckin*forgiveable.
You cannot have a line out closer than 5m - someone should implant that in his ear with a wildlife tagging gun: should help him remember.
And then, as the commentators (Kearns?) observed the next one was taken with less ceremony than you might expect in the local touch game on Sunday morning.
This is indicative of the attitude, IMO.

I agree. I'm just highlighting that plenty of people make excuses for big mistakes by popular players whereas the less popular or more divisive players (mostly Cooper, KB (Kurtley Beale) and JOC (James O'Connor) in the last couple of years) will be chased out of town by a lynchmob for doing the same thing.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I agree. I'm just highlighting that plenty of people make excuses for big mistakes by popular players whereas the less popular or more divisive players (mostly Cooper, KB (Kurtley Beale) and JOC (James O'Connor) in the last couple of years) will be chased out of town by a lynchmob for doing the same thing.

I still haven't forgiven David Knox for his similar atrocity

 

[Viking]

NOT f*cking me - unf*ckin*forgiveable.
You cannot have a line out closer than 5m - someone should implant that in his ear with a wildlife tagging gun: should help him remember.
And then, as the commentators (Kearns?) observed the next one was taken with less ceremony than you might expect in the local touch game on Sunday morning.
This is indicative of the attitude, IMO.

Completely agree. To'omua has made this mistake numerous times in the past. which makes it even more unforgivable. You would think he would have learned from past mistakes.

 

[KOB1987]

I agree. I'm just highlighting that plenty of people make excuses for big mistakes by popular players whereas the less popular or more divisive players (mostly Cooper, KB (Kurtley Beale) and JOC (James O'Connor) in the last couple of years) will be chased out of town by a lynchmob for doing the same thing.

yeah, imagine if Beale was the one that kicked the non-touch finder

actually I'm surprised he hasn't been blamed for it anyway, surely he coughed or something..

 

[Pfitzy]

Farted

 

[Bullrush]

This piece in the NZ Herald is a pretty good insight into what I've been trying to say for the last couple of posts:
All Blacks: Pack 'went to a dark place'

 

[cyclopath]

A bloody virulent one too.
I don't care how much healthy tissue you have to take we need a wide excisional margin. Im thinking 2m all round.

I might even use the FRIKKEN' LASER!

 

[dabiged]

Given the wallabies seem to be lacking a) a genuine pilferer and b) mongrel in the pack (which fardy has stopped given in the recent games) can I suggest playing hodgson at 6 to complement Hooper at 7? Hodgson led Super Rugby in pilfers this season and was a wall in defence.

 

[KOB1987]

you can suggest it but I'm pretty sure it won't happen..

 

[Train Without a Station]

Hooper was the 2nd highest for piflers and highest for test pilfers in 2013.

It's clearly not a lack of a genuine pilferer. It's a lack of opportunities to pilfer.

How many pilfers are made from passive defense?

I'll go out on a limb and say sweet fuck all.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I might even use the FRIKKEN' LASER!

That doesn't sound painful enough

 

[Inside Shoulder]

How many pilfers are made from passive defense?

 

[Viking]

Hooper was the 2nd highest for piflers and highest for test pilfers in 2013.

It's clearly not a lack of a genuine pilferer. It's a lack of opportunities to pilfer.

How many pilfers are made from passive defense?

I'll go out on a limb and say sweet fuck all.

Agree Pilfers is not the problem. A lack of breakdown defence, Aggression at the breakdown, Accuracy at the breakdown all a problem. Hooper probably the wallabies best at this attributes - Everyone else needs to step up drastically.