Michael Cheika

[Up the Guts]

He's driven by a desire to be successful and to be meticulously organised in order to do so. Concepts foreign to many in Australian rugby.

This is the salient point. Instilling a new coach without changing some of the structures and systems surrounding them won't be as effective as it otherwise should be. Thankfully, the QF knockout seems to have brought some attention to these issues that limping through to the semis may not have.

 

[liquor box]

I wonder if Cheika even watched England V All Blacks game last night and thought fuck analysis of the opposition might be worth a go.

I doubt he watched it

 

[Gnostic]

Jessssssssssssussss fucking christ. Truly straw clutching shit you lot are doing. The attitude you're displaying is quite pathetic.



Have a read up on their Bios rather than think their lifes work can be summarized in less than a sentence.



Ann





Pip







Elizabeth





All three have demonstrated decades worth of experience at the highest level of management. All three have had management positions at the biggest companies in Australia and some having C-Suite jobs in global giants.



Its absolute crock of shit that you think they';re not good enough.

So what you are saying is that two of them fitted the ex-banker requirement of RA and had the added secondary benefit of ticking the "inclusiveness" box. The final nomination had that all encompassing qualification of being a Lawyer. I would think anybody having a senior position in one of the big four at any time in the past 15 years in Australia or NZ should be disqualified from holding any position requiring integrity. They have all directly benefitted from theft and fraud of a record type in this country and whilst I am sure they will all plead ignorance of the facts - that is what they are ignorant and incompetent. So much so that each of the big four has had to make provision for fines and compensation near $1Billion. Just what Rugby Australia needs. As for the remaining member - well there is a reason why Lawyers are at the bottom or close to it in the esteem and standing of the public and only arrogance keeps them blind to the justification for that.

All that aside the need for genuine sports management experience is paramount and this executive and board is fairly homogenous in its qualifications. Gender is not a qualification no matter how much the activists would like to make it one.

 

[KOB1987]

No doubt. He and Cheika are quite similar in a lot of ways (very single minded, my way or the highway), EJ (Eddie Jones) has just proven himself to have the ability to be more adaptable and perhaps a bit more intelligent if I were to be unkind to Cheik.

Cheika never pretended to be anything that he was not. He was completely invested in his game plan and gave it 100%. You could not ask for more from any coach.
The problem with his tenure was that RA were unable to recognise when he became ineffective and/or they didn’t have the balls to sack him......literally.
He can walk away with his head held high.

This is pure speculation obviously, but I’d wager that if Cheika had got the England gig instead of Eddie they’d be in exactly the same position right now I.e heading into a RWC final. Their player pool is incredible, not to mention the infinite chequebook. Cheika had neither.

 

[Quick Hands]

Cheika never pretended to be anything that he was not. He was completely invested in his game plan and gave it 100%. You could not ask for more from any coach.
.

At some point though, these character traits go from being a virtue to being a vice. The ability to recognise when your plan isn't working and the further ability to modify that plan is what good coaches do.

 

[Gnostic]

This is pure speculation obviously, but I’d wager that if Cheika had got the England gig instead of Eddie they’d be in exactly the same position right now I.e heading into a RWC final. Their player pool is incredible, not to mention the infinite chequebook. Cheika had neither.

I seriously doubt that. The England game plan last night took the ABs apart. Their work at the lineout just one aspect that was designed to counter the ABs ability to pressure and turn over the ball. Second look at the way in which they attack the ABs midfield and then kicked to space. Tying Mo'aga up at 13 (where he was defending (because NZ moved him away from Farrell and Tuilagi - instead he had Watson & Slade running at his outside shoulder and made two breaks) and they pressured those kicks so much that Barrett rarely even made the gain line on a return kick let a lone a run.

Chieka by his oft discussed own admission did not analyse the opposition - in fact he said on one occasion he didn't watch much rugby. Where was Eddie tonight - with pen and note pad in hand studying the Boks V Wales game with Borthwick in the stands. They weren't spectators. If Chieka had the English side I believe they would have been in the same state as they were under Lancaster, picking blokes like Burgess in the centres despite him not playing there before and playing musical chairs in other selections without genuine reason. I saw an article today that gave stats that Chieka has capped 68 Wallabies in 4 years. Wow, and still he didn't know who his starting 9 & 10 were.

 

[formerflanker]

No problem JP.
What's your point then? Please finish your argument. Your point so far is that Raelene Castle was not appointed completely for her ability, rather her gender was taken into account and therefore.? What? She's not up to the task? Why does it matter?

Castle's appointment is one issue. She wasn't the safe, uncontroversial choice I thought she was. It matters because the question goes to the core of the board of RA and their ability to administer our game.
Additionally, her performance in the role has hurt Australian rugby.
She was instrumental in sacking our highest Super try scorer and shoe-in for RWC selection. (Can you imagine Folau's ability to gather the Reece Hodge re-starts and earn possession for Australia; or his ability under the high ball so evident in this WC; let alone his try scoring ability.) Raelene failed to negotiate an outcome between Folau and Qantas that kept him in the game.
She also failed to take decisive action to sack Cheika and created an unworkable coaching structure instead.
To summarise - I'm not happy with either the selection process (now ancient history) or her performance on the job.

 

[Viking]

Castle's appointment is one issue. She wasn't the safe, uncontroversial choice I thought she was. It matters because the question goes to the core of the board of RA and their ability to administer our game.
Additionally, her performance in the role has hurt Australian rugby.
She was instrumental in sacking our highest Super try scorer and shoe-in for RWC selection. (Can you imagine Folau's ability to gather the Reece Hodge re-starts and earn possession for Australia; or his ability under the high ball so evident in this WC; let alone his try scoring ability.) Raelene failed to negotiate an outcome between Folau and Qantas that kept him in the game.
She also failed to take decisive action to sack Cheika and created an unworkable coaching structure instead.
To summarise - I'm not happy with either the selection process (now ancient history) or her performance on the job.

Not sure we would be in a better position is she sacked Cheika 1 year ago with no decent replacement. She played the long-game, give Cheika one more 1 year, save paying him out and have more coaching options after the RWC. Make some changes at least - which Cheika didn't like but that likely saw some Cheika's favourites: Hanigan/Phipps miss selection - which at the end of day probably helped.

Easy to sack a coach but there were likely no replacements available. Unless you hire a short-term coach and that's not a great idea either. Now there's a load of solid coaches available.

Yeah the Folau event was a mess - still is.

I'm not advocating she is doing a great job, but she's clearly looking at things in the long-term and probably doing better then most considering the mess she inherited.

 

[Slim 293]

She was instrumental in sacking our highest Super try scorer and shoe-in for RWC selection.

Unless the CEO was Alan Jones or Martyn Iles, he was going to be sacked no matter who was in charge........... that's all on Folau.

 

[Slim 293]

This is pure speculation obviously, but I’d wager that if Cheika had got the England gig instead of Eddie they’d be in exactly the same position right now I.e heading into a RWC final. Their player pool is incredible, not to mention the infinite chequebook. Cheika had neither.

It just meant that Cheika would've had so many more halves combinations to run with throughout the RWC.........

 

[Viking]

Unless the CEO was Alan Jones or Martyn Iles, he was going to be sacked no matter who was in charge..... that's all on Folau.

She could have fined and suspended him.

EDIT: Although sacking was always the likely outcome.

 

[Bobby Sands]

I almost feel like I’ve woken up out of a trance & cant he quite believe Cheika was our coach for so long in the first place.

 

[fatprop]

She could have fined and suspended him.

EDIT: Although sacking was always the likely outcome.

Interesting (always great) podcast from the UK

Moral Maze "The ‘Tolerance of Intolerance’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0009jl2

The general subject isn't going away, the starting point of this one was a religiously conservative area challenging what was taught to their kids in their local public school. To suppress protests near the school, the UK government\judiciary is considering exclusion areas around schools

 

[Adam84]

I don’t blame Cheika or Castle for that mess, Folau caused it, but then forced their hands by ignoring their calls when they were trying to mitigate the fall-out, he could have saved his career if he wanted.

 

[Quick Hands]

Castle's appointment is one issue. She wasn't the safe, uncontroversial choice I thought she was. It matters because the question goes to the core of the board of RA and their ability to administer our game.
Additionally, her performance in the role has hurt Australian rugby.
She was instrumental in sacking our highest Super try scorer and shoe-in for RWC selection. (Can you imagine Folau's ability to gather the Reece Hodge re-starts and earn possession for Australia; or his ability under the high ball so evident in this WC; let alone his try scoring ability.) Raelene failed to negotiate an outcome between Folau and Qantas that kept him in the game.
She also failed to take decisive action to sack Cheika and created an unworkable coaching structure instead.
To summarise - I'm not happy with either the selection process (now ancient history) or her performance on the job.

Ralene Castle was a proven failure in two sports so she was eminently qualified for a management role at RA

Raelene Castle remains a greatly admired sports administrator but six years on from her stint as Netball New Zealand (NNZ) chief executive, it's hard to say our game's in great shape.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/391466/opinion-netball-nz-haunted-by-former-management

Critics of the former Bulldogs administration of chairman Ray Dib and chief executive Raelene Castle point out the NRL did flag in April 2017 a possible salary cap of $8.8m. It was subsequently increased to $9.5m but should have been sufficient warning to the Canterbury club of the danger of signing players to exorbitant payments.
Asked what warnings the NRL gave the former administration of the club, current chief executive Andrew Hill said: “The club had a number of contracts provisionally registered last year and they were all registered once the club became cap compliant. I’m not sure I have any more great detail outside of this.”
Translation: the detail was done by Dib/Castle and it is not at hand.

The NRL’s critics are particularly incensed Castle has escaped scrutiny while Dib may have disregarded advice to the contrary.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nr...-from-bulldogs-car-crash-20180521-p4zgm3.html

 

[Adam84]

This thread has digressed somewhat from the Cheika topic, just so i can understand where the sentiment is heading, is the retention of Cheika as Wallaby coach last year considered a significant failure by Castle?

 

[Quick Hands]

This thread has digressed somewhat from the Cheika topic, just so i can understand where the sentiment is heading, is the retention of Cheika as Wallaby coach last year considered a significant failure by Castle?

I don't believe I said that or anything approaching that, in fact Cheika's name wasn't even mentioned or alluded to. Strange construction you've decided to put on something.

 

[barbarian]

I can understand how people may not agree with Castle's decisions, but she was dealt a couple of pretty divisive issues and I'm not sure there was a right way to handle them.

She fines/warns Folau and it just keeps the issue rolling, and all of a sudden it risks overshadowing our Cup campaign. And the media cries 'why didn't Castle sack him when she had the chance?'.

Same with Cheika - there was no perfect scenario. She either sacks him, pays out his contract and installs essentially a stand-in coach for the World Cup, or sticks with him and hopes he comes good.

I don't know if in these options there IS a right answer, where things are good and the Wallabies win. It's just a shit sandwich served a few different ways.
.

 

[wamberal]

This forum is full of Monday morning quarterbacks.

 

[Tex]

This weekend's games gave us a crystal view of Cheika's strengths and weaknesses.

Wales v Boks showed us precisely what he vehemently hated and vowed never to dish up to the Australian rugby public.

England's performance vs NZ showed us precisely what he might have aspired to deliver but didn't have the acumen or cattle or skill to do so.