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LOCKED: Time to Sack Deans?

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Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
My angst begins to rise again. Giteau moved to 10 when he has for the first time in 12 months begun to show some form. This will be a big step backwards not only for the player but for the team. There will be no reprieves again if, as I suspect, moving Giteau to 10 results in what we have seen before from him there.

Knee jerk reaction, no. It has taken me two years to come to the point of speaking out against the coach and the players. Knee jerk would have been me calling for sackings in 2009.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
mmmmmmm, prosciutto and melon in one post almost.....yum
Have some more of that Powerade bottle, Lee!! (Lindommer knows what I mean!!)
 

Zinzan

Herbert Moran (7)
Sack the useless bastard & let's move on.

He reminds me of Julia Gillard........'we're moving forward' but all talk, it's just a cover up for no results!!!!!
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
My angst begins to rise again. Giteau moved to 10 when he has for the first time in 12 months begun to show some form. This will be a big step backwards not only for the player but for the team. There will be no reprieves again if, as I suspect, moving Giteau to 10 results in what we have seen before from him there.

Knee jerk reaction, no. It has taken me two years to come to the point of speaking out against the coach and the players. Knee jerk would have been me calling for sackings in 2009.

Have faith in the Dingo Gnostic.
 

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
mmmmmmm, prosciutto and melon in one post almost.....yum Have some more of that Powerade bottle, Lee! (Lindommer knows what I mean!)

So what you're saying, Lee, is "fuck the facts, go the vibe". Shouldn't you stay off that Ribena?
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
So what you're saying, Lee, is "fuck the facts, go the vibe". Shouldn't you stay off that Ribena?

I would never be so profane, but there is a certain tyranny about facts as they can ruin a perfectly sound argument.

As for the blackcurrant Powerade or Ribena bottle I take to the SFS and Stadium Australia it may be a fact that it is filled with the contents indicated on the label but the vibe tells me it is something else.
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
after the World Cup? (Let's face it, there is slim chance of him being sacked) A very good question.

It will depend on how the Wallabies do, so I hope he goes on to coach the All Blacks as they try unsuccessfully for the next decade to win back the Tri Nations, Bledisloe Cup and World Cup from the all conquering Wallabies.

erm, maybe Saracens?
 

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
I have a sneaking suspicion he's putting down roots in Oz. If I'm wrong I thoroughly admire him for the wholehearted commitment he's making to rugby here and Australia. We'll start to see tangible benefits from his stewardship in Super Rugby next year.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
The speculation has always been that he'd go on to coach the All Blacks. I sincerely hope not, as he will have played a large part in the development of many of the players the AB's would be lining up against.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
The vibe is good. I'm going with the vibe

Noted. So, let me understand this: in the context of our friendly debate re Deans, and after all your claims in his defence, promo videos (brilliantly disguised as humour), 'arguments for' essays, and numerous adoring one-liners, your 'achievement markers' (as per my request) to properly define a future factual moment (or moments) when your argument re this coach will be objectively vindicated for all to see is:

'I'm going with the vibe'.

OK, now I understand.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
after the World Cup? (Let's face it, there is slim chance of him being sacked) A very good question. It will depend on how the Wallabies do, so I hope he goes on to coach the All Blacks as they try unsuccessfully for the next decade to win back the Tri Nations, Bledisloe Cup and World Cup from the all conquering Wallabies. erm, maybe Saracens?

If RD has a very bad Tris (say just one win again, or close), he and the ARU may come under severe pressure. I would not rule out the possibility of him resigning at that point (assuming JO'N senses he has viable alternatives that could come in quickly pre RWC, and this parameter may determine what occurs).

A 'reasonable' Tris (btw, no one here can quite agree what that means any more), he's OK. A RWC win v ABs, hmmm, he might just come into ABs contention post-Henry, but somehow I doubt it if his prior 3.5 yr track record with Aus is deemed poor by the NZRU.

An OK RWC for Aus, but no win, he'd get offers from all over the S15 would be my guess, and maybe some top Euro teams too. His superb S14 record will still shine, but not quite so brightly as in 2007. I think Test teams would be cautious unless we win the RWC.

Btw, I have to add here that an absolute (positive) highlight for me re Boks win was twofold re RD. One, seeing RD just about banging the glass in the coaches box, arms flailing, real bloody passion mate!! The absence of that and his cool, always in control manner (plus his anodyne PC statements after the match) there in most past cases has always worried me, as though he was a paid observer more than a battle-scarred general feeling the hard fire in the trenches with the men. Two, this week he's really looked a worried and tension-driven man. I like that because I sense he's now _really_ joined emotionally to this team's fate in these Tris. This is 'do or die' for them both to show some proper, repeatable growth and terminate the excuses-factory. And RD knows it's performance time now, or he could be gone, or badly humbled professionally. He knows full well that he can't just keeping talking about 'development' forever, he's more proud than that line permits.

Please understand: I don't mean to be harsh in the above remarks. Quite the opposite, I think these signs are positives. At last RD, the whole team, may be uniting talent, the right fear, and intensity of purpose to get a 'hard mind' up for all of 80 minutes, not the more typical 55. And do it next week, and the week after. Sometimes mental transformation and the ultimate courage can come from a uniting fear and 'this is it, it's the last chance' factors, as much as it can come from desire.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
He's got his team now. The majority of players in the Wallaby system are now Deans selections and he has to live or die by that. This tends to create a bit of additional motivation, which I think is a good thing.

It's from now until the end of the year that we find out how good he is. If he's not only got the players he wants, but also having them play to his system, then a certain amount of success will follow. If they don't buy into it, the results will be poor and he'll look like a goose.

I think they all know that the results are going to have to start coming, or else the last two years of rebuilding and graft have been for nought.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I'll also say that for me the marker is at least one win against the All Blacks this 3N. If we can't do that, then the situation pretty much is hopeless. If I cast my mind back to the 1990-91 period, when we developed into the best team in the world, we got a number of spankings from the AB's during that time. They were and remain the best rugby team I've ever seen. But, starting with the third test in 1990, we managed to find a way to beat them, as they were cresting the hill and we were still climbing. It is imperative that do just that in this 3N. No wins in the four tests this year basically is an admission that we don't have the cattle, the game plan or both to beat the best team in the world. If you can't do that, then forget about the world cup.
 
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