You still here, cyclo?
Yeah. Why? Did you think I had, or should have gone somewhere?
LOCKED: Time to Sack Deans?
- Thread starter Gnostic
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Yeah. Why? Did you think I had, or should have gone somewhere?
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
Having had 36 hours to consider this further, I have come to the view that the thing the Wallabies are lacking the most is mental hardness. By mental toughness I am referring to the additional hunger, urgency, consistency, desperation and self belief that differentiate the great players/teams from the rest of the pack.
The recurring theme since 2008 has been our inability to play 80mins of our best rugby. We seem to clock on and clock off during games - most games have a 20 mins patch where we just go quiet, although sometimes it lasts for a whole game ala Scotland last year. During these periods, our defence loses its intensity, we start making basic errors, our pigs start watching the rucks more, our attack more predictable and so on.
It explains why we have respectable/competitive teams in super rugby but are still along way behind the All blacks in the tests.
Last year, we clocked off during the second half of all the bledisloes. The Cartel were obviously well aware of this, but also they are well aware that the All Blacks currently are much mentally tougher than the Wobbs, and so they had their team fired up and focussed on having a big first half in Melbourne on Sat. We dutifully obliged, even though things got off to a rocky start for the All Blacks, by via poor discipline and poor execution for the first 40 mins of the game.
While there are a number of culprits, Giteau and Sharpe are at the top of the list with Barnes and Mitchell close behind. Its worrying that they are meant to be setting the example for the young players around them. All of these guys have had mountains of opportunity yet who can remember a bledisloe game where they stood up and had a blinder? Mitchell is the only one who can make a claim here.
Whose fault is this lack of mental toughness? The responsibility lies with the captain, coach and the ARU to varying degrees. However I am prepared to be most lenient towards Elsom given he inherited this situation and neither Mortlock (who I did rate as a captain) or Smith seemed to make any real inroads into this anyway. Whats more I can’t see any of the obvious Elsom replacements doing any better.
Is Deans to blame? Absolutely, although I can also see why he is struggling here as I doubt he has run into this problem in NZ before as players mentally weak players probably get found out well before they get near the All Blacks. .
Is the ARU to blame? Most definitely, in my view the biggest uncertainty in appointing Deans was whether he could take his rugby technical knowledge (which I still believe is very strong) and make it effective for Aus players to make a strong Aus team.
What’s to be done? Well something needs to change. Sure player changes may make some difference but I don’t think that’s going to be enough by itself. I would love to see McKenzie, Foley, Mooney or Johnson appointed as assistant (or even as co-) coaches. The Deans, Williams, Graham combo isn’t working and we aren’t making progress on the things that are holding us back the most. Change is needed, but not now. Its too late for this 3N, but change can be made for the spring tour.
The recurring theme since 2008 has been our inability to play 80mins of our best rugby. We seem to clock on and clock off during games - most games have a 20 mins patch where we just go quiet, although sometimes it lasts for a whole game ala Scotland last year. During these periods, our defence loses its intensity, we start making basic errors, our pigs start watching the rucks more, our attack more predictable and so on.
It explains why we have respectable/competitive teams in super rugby but are still along way behind the All blacks in the tests.
Last year, we clocked off during the second half of all the bledisloes. The Cartel were obviously well aware of this, but also they are well aware that the All Blacks currently are much mentally tougher than the Wobbs, and so they had their team fired up and focussed on having a big first half in Melbourne on Sat. We dutifully obliged, even though things got off to a rocky start for the All Blacks, by via poor discipline and poor execution for the first 40 mins of the game.
While there are a number of culprits, Giteau and Sharpe are at the top of the list with Barnes and Mitchell close behind. Its worrying that they are meant to be setting the example for the young players around them. All of these guys have had mountains of opportunity yet who can remember a bledisloe game where they stood up and had a blinder? Mitchell is the only one who can make a claim here.
Whose fault is this lack of mental toughness? The responsibility lies with the captain, coach and the ARU to varying degrees. However I am prepared to be most lenient towards Elsom given he inherited this situation and neither Mortlock (who I did rate as a captain) or Smith seemed to make any real inroads into this anyway. Whats more I can’t see any of the obvious Elsom replacements doing any better.
Is Deans to blame? Absolutely, although I can also see why he is struggling here as I doubt he has run into this problem in NZ before as players mentally weak players probably get found out well before they get near the All Blacks. .
Is the ARU to blame? Most definitely, in my view the biggest uncertainty in appointing Deans was whether he could take his rugby technical knowledge (which I still believe is very strong) and make it effective for Aus players to make a strong Aus team.
What’s to be done? Well something needs to change. Sure player changes may make some difference but I don’t think that’s going to be enough by itself. I would love to see McKenzie, Foley, Mooney or Johnson appointed as assistant (or even as co-) coaches. The Deans, Williams, Graham combo isn’t working and we aren’t making progress on the things that are holding us back the most. Change is needed, but not now. Its too late for this 3N, but change can be made for the spring tour.
louie
Desmond Connor (43)
This is problem at super15 level no just Australia v NZ.
MrTimms
Ken Catchpole (46)
Link has already assistant coached the wobbs under eddie jones.
R
Red Rooster
Guest
Do your homework Louie - when Link was the assistant coach with both Macqueen and Jones they won the Tri-Nations twice, the Bledisloe twice, beat the British Lions and went to the RWC final in 2003 - He was the Wallabies co-ordinator od coaching for 50+tests
louie
Desmond Connor (43)
Some Info. This is our cattle. What robbie has to work with.
Hookers
Stephen Moore
Saia Fainga'a
Huia Edmonds
Damien Fitzpatrick
Ben Whittaker
Ryan Tyrrell
James Hanson
Props
Pekahou Cowan
Kieran Longbottom
Tim Fairbrother
Greg Holmes
Ben Daley
Dayna Edwards
Jack Kennedy
Laurie Weeks
Sekope Kepu
Benn Robinson
Jeremy Tilse
Dan Palmer
Guy Shepherdson
Ben Alexander
Salesi Ma'afu
Jerry Yanuyanutawa
Locks
Nathan Sharpe
Tom Hockings
Sam Wykes
Luke Jones
Will Caldwell
Dean Mumm
Chris Thomson
Cam Jowitt
Hendrik Roodt
Rob Simmons
Mark Chisholm
Ben Hand
Loose
Richard Brown
David Pocock
Matt Hodgson
Richard Stanford
Ben McCalman
Leroy Houston
Adam Byrnes
Scott Higginbotham
Poutasi Luafutu
Ezra Taylor
Lei Tomiki
Wycliff Palu
Beau Robinson
Ben Mowen
David Dennis
Chris Alcock
Ben Coridas
Stephen Hoiles
Rocky Elsom
Mitchell Chapman
Sitaleki Timani
Henry Vanderglas
Halfbacks
Will Genia
Ben Lucas
Richard Kingi
Brett Sheehan
Mark Swanepoel
Luke Burgess
Josh Holmes
Josh Valentine
Tens
Kurtley Beale
Quade Cooper,
Matt Giteau
Christian Lealiifano
Matt To'omua
Centres
Ryan Cross
Josh Tatupu
Mitch Inman
Anthony Fainga'a
Will Chambers
Berrick Barnes
Tom Carter
Rory Sidey
Tyrone Smith
Back Three
Brandon Va'aulu
Blair Connor
Luke Morahan
Haig Sare
Nick Cummins
Dane Haylett-Petty
Lachlan Turner
Nemani Nadolo
Francis Fainifo
Alfi Mafi
Afusipa Taumoepeau
Soseni Anesi
Drew Mitchell
Cameron Shepherd
Adam Ashley-Cooper
Pat McCabe
James O'Connor
these are the squads as of the start of super14 this year.
Hookers
Stephen Moore
Saia Fainga'a
Huia Edmonds
Damien Fitzpatrick
Ben Whittaker
Ryan Tyrrell
James Hanson
Props
Pekahou Cowan
Kieran Longbottom
Tim Fairbrother
Greg Holmes
Ben Daley
Dayna Edwards
Jack Kennedy
Laurie Weeks
Sekope Kepu
Benn Robinson
Jeremy Tilse
Dan Palmer
Guy Shepherdson
Ben Alexander
Salesi Ma'afu
Jerry Yanuyanutawa
Locks
Nathan Sharpe
Tom Hockings
Sam Wykes
Luke Jones
Will Caldwell
Dean Mumm
Chris Thomson
Cam Jowitt
Hendrik Roodt
Rob Simmons
Mark Chisholm
Ben Hand
Loose
Richard Brown
David Pocock
Matt Hodgson
Richard Stanford
Ben McCalman
Leroy Houston
Adam Byrnes
Scott Higginbotham
Poutasi Luafutu
Ezra Taylor
Lei Tomiki
Wycliff Palu
Beau Robinson
Ben Mowen
David Dennis
Chris Alcock
Ben Coridas
Stephen Hoiles
Rocky Elsom
Mitchell Chapman
Sitaleki Timani
Henry Vanderglas
Halfbacks
Will Genia
Ben Lucas
Richard Kingi
Brett Sheehan
Mark Swanepoel
Luke Burgess
Josh Holmes
Josh Valentine
Tens
Kurtley Beale
Quade Cooper,
Matt Giteau
Christian Lealiifano
Matt To'omua
Centres
Ryan Cross
Josh Tatupu
Mitch Inman
Anthony Fainga'a
Will Chambers
Berrick Barnes
Tom Carter
Rory Sidey
Tyrone Smith
Back Three
Brandon Va'aulu
Blair Connor
Luke Morahan
Haig Sare
Nick Cummins
Dane Haylett-Petty
Lachlan Turner
Nemani Nadolo
Francis Fainifo
Alfi Mafi
Afusipa Taumoepeau
Soseni Anesi
Drew Mitchell
Cameron Shepherd
Adam Ashley-Cooper
Pat McCabe
James O'Connor
these are the squads as of the start of super14 this year.
R
Red Rooster
Guest
And the ones that are already playing overseas as we speak - of which there are at least 10
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
Yeah. Why? Did you think I had, or should have gone somewhere?
Just this thread, I mean. It's like meeting people you know in a brothel.
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
I don't know it might have been posted in this thread but if you were to dump Deans and bring in any coach you want, who else would he pick?
I think the tight 5 is where a lot of problems start. They got man handled by the blacks, same as the Boks. The back row was always going to struggle.
To beat the ABs the first thing you need to do is dominate up front. Else just forget it. Does Australia have the people who can? Not against this AB tight 5 I don't think. Sorry boys, hard thing to say but I think that's a BIG part of the problem.
I think this AB team will go undefeated this year. Nobody can live with them.
I think the tight 5 is where a lot of problems start. They got man handled by the blacks, same as the Boks. The back row was always going to struggle.
To beat the ABs the first thing you need to do is dominate up front. Else just forget it. Does Australia have the people who can? Not against this AB tight 5 I don't think. Sorry boys, hard thing to say but I think that's a BIG part of the problem.
I think this AB team will go undefeated this year. Nobody can live with them.
All very well, but I bolded the realistic ones at the moment (and obviously excluded injured ones), and even some of those have been "ruled out" by the powers that be. Hard to argue the others are really contenders for a Wallaby jersey.
I am just trying to work out how to take that little gem, Scarfy!!
Anyway, I was just here with a mate!!
My bolded list above highlights your point Blue. Not much to scare the ABs tight 5 there.
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
I was just there for a checkup!
S
Sydney Wallabies
Guest
I agree with you Louie.
The problem is the Australian S15 coaches aren't that great.
McKenzie with Queensland is ok,Hickey as Tahs coach I haven't been a fan of, did well with Eastwood but club rugby to S15 is a big step, Andy Friend at the ACT is not bad and John Mitchell in WA has been a big disappointment.
Melbourne Rebels will be well coached next season having Rod Macqueen as coach though.
It's a massive problem that none of the Aussie S15 sides did anything this season.
You're right that our players aren't well coached at S15 level.
The lack of a proper national club competition hurts us as well.
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