LOCKED: Time to Sack Deans?

[Utility Back]

Three teams in the top six isnt to bad.
Waratahs in the semi's and the reds beat the other three finalists (although at home). Thats something.

 

[Gnostic]

I would dispute the thrust of Spiro's article in a few points.

Mooney coached the Reds very well. Their handling and continuity skills have been absolutely outstanding for two years. Equal to if not the best in the whole comp.
Hickey has the Tahs as one of he most consistant forward packs in the comp, week in week out (trouble is their dire play goes nowhere).

The skills and application in these two areas was very good, especially with the Reds high pace support game.

However every player has weaknesses and I question if they really have been doing the work to address those and if the coaches have assisted by identifying and developing systems to correct same. I will always remember the comment from Campo about Andrew Slack that went something like Slacky had the worst right to left pass he had ever seen, but Slacky went away and threw pass after pass for hours on end and when the time came against Scotland in the '84 grandslam tour he threw a 20 metre cut out ball at full pace for Campo to score in the corner.

 

[louie]

yes but all those teams played rugby with very little skill level. the development of skills in this country really needs to be looked at.
We should be teaching our young players how to catch pass kick etc. not just pumping iron.
For guys like Kurtley Beale, Nemani Nadolo, Josh Holmes, Luke Burgess their skill level hasn't improved.

Mooney coached the Reds very well. Their handling and continuity skills have been absolutely outstanding for two years. Equal to if not the best in the whole comp.
Hickey has the Tahs as one of he most consistant forward packs in the comp, week in week out (trouble is their dire play goes nowhere).

The skills and application in these two areas was very good, especially with the Reds high pace support game.

agree 100% here. Thats why the reds players are so key to the Australian set up. Mooney was a fantastic coach. Where is he now?

 

[lartsua]

What a load of rubbish. Why would you sack Deans? He has to use the players that are available. The players that he has do not have the basic skills of kick, pass and tackle. It is not his job to teach these skills it is the job of the coaches at the club and provincial level and it is not happening there as the coaches are rubbish.
Replacing Deans with McKenzie would be a backward step. He was sacked from NSW and Stade Francais where he had access to the best players available and failed.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The quality of backline passing has been a bug bear of mine for a long time. When I look at the quality of ball movement in Wallaby teams of days past it makes me a bit sad about the current generation. The amount of times I see guys having to stop, jump or reach behind them to receive the ball just irritates me. It's not bloody good enough from elite players. Modern forward play is a marvel to watch, especially the modern hooker or lock, but our backline play hasn't really improved for a decade or more.

 

[Gnostic]

The quality of backline passing has been a bug bear of mine for a long time. When I look at the quality of ball movement in Wallaby teams of days past it makes me a bit sad about the current generation. The amount of times I see guys having to stop, jump or reach behind them to receive the ball just irritates me. It's not bloody good enough from elite players. Modern forward play is a marvel to watch, especially the modern hooker or lock, but our backline play hasn't really improved for a decade or more.

Generally I agree with you Hornet. I look at Randwick now and think there isn't anybody with the skills like Campo, Ella or even David Knox. They were magnificently gifted players who worked extremely hard on their skills. There are a couple of players with the same level of gifts or innate ability, Beale & Mitchell but they are no where near as good.

The coaching is important but the individuals need to be receptive to the critique of their game and prepared to work at it.

 

[Scarfman]

Like you, BH, I reckon 80% of Aussie backline passes are too high. You want it out in front, of course, but slightly too low is better than slightly too high. It just passes on pressure.

 

[louie]

I look at Randwick now and think there isn't anybody with the skills like Campo, Ella or even David Knox.

fRandwick are the worst coached team in Syd club rugby. There's no game whatsoever. For fuck sake i wish they would get a good flyhalf

 

[Sydney Wallabies]

fRandwick are the worst coached team in Syd club rugby. There's no game whatsoever. For fuck sake i wish they would get a good flyhalf

As long as they don't poach Tim Rapp from Southern Districts, I'm happy.

It's the first time in years since we've had anything to happy about so far.

 

[louie]

Danny Kroll (spelling?) used to play there. better then the old man they have now.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Time to resurrect the flat line attack and quick passing. That is if the current group are capable of doing it.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I mean, watch this. *THAT* is how you pass the ball.

[video=youtube;V7SveKIjzpQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7SveKIjzpQ&feature=related[/video]

 

[Gnostic]

Exactly my point, not one pass behind the player. However they were all short passes, the Slack one highlights the long pass ability as well.

 

[Scotty]

The quality of backline passing has been a bug bear of mine for a long time. When I look at the quality of ball movement in Wallaby teams of days past it makes me a bit sad about the current generation. The amount of times I see guys having to stop, jump or reach behind them to receive the ball just irritates me. It's not bloody good enough from elite players. Modern forward play is a marvel to watch, especially the modern hooker or lock, but our backline play hasn't really improved for a decade or more.

Surely a lot of that has to do with the players though. How can you compare:

9 Gregan vs Genia
10 Larkham vs Cooper
11 Mitchell vs Roff
12 Giteau vs Horan
13 Horne vs Herbert
14 JOC (James O'Connor) vs Tune
15 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) vs Burke

None of the players on the left are a patch on the ones on the right. IMO only Genia has the potential to match or compete with Gregan, but he isn't there yet. I also hope that Cooper will one day be mentioned in the same sentence as Larkham. As for the rest, they are not only smaller and less tough, but also somewhat lacking in basic skills.

 

[Scotty]

Time to resurrect the flat line attack and quick passing. That is if the current group are capable of doing it.

Cooper made the comment about the line being too deep after the game. What he didn't realise is that only he has the ability to play right on the defensive line, and Giteau and Barnes need more space because their ball playing skills aren't quite as sharp.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Surely a lot of that has to do with the players though. How can you compare:

9 Gregan vs Genia
10 Larkham vs Cooper
11 Mitchell vs Roff
12 Giteau vs Horan
13 Horne vs Herbert
14 JOC (James O'Connor) vs Tune
15 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) vs Burke

None of the players on the left are a patch on the ones on the right. IMO only Genia has the potential to match or compete with Gregan, but he isn't there yet. I also hope that Cooper will one day be mentioned in the same sentence as Larkham. As for the rest, they are not only smaller and less tough, but also somewhat lacking in basic skills.

To an extent, yes it is about the players. But passing is a basic skill, so is running into space. If these blokes can't do a simple thing like catch then what hope do we have? Of the players above, I expect Genia to surpass George as a pure halfback, Cooper could well end up as good as Larkham and Giteau has the raw talent of Horan.

Let's not forget that many of these guys weren't instant superstars when they came into the test team. Bernie wasn't even playing 5/8 to begin with. They were polished by excellent coaching and a game plan that fully utilised their talents.

For the last decade (or maybe even more), the quality of passing in our backline has been IMHO poor. That also includes backlines with some of the aforementioned superstars.

 

[Scotty]

To an extent, yes it is about the players. But passing is a basic skill, so is running into space. If these blokes can't do a simple thing like catch then what hope do we have? Of the players above, I expect Genia to surpass George as a pure halfback, Cooper could well end up as good as Larkham and Giteau has the raw talent of Horan.

Take that ludicrous statement back. Right NOW!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Take that ludicrous statement back. Right NOW!

Make me

 

[Scotty]

I can't even type properly, let alone make anyone do anything.

 

[Red Rooster]

So the Wallabies are in camp for 7 months of the year with Deans and he has no responsibilitiy to coach skills? Lets seek McKenzie saw out his contract at the Tahs by being in the Final and was in the finals 3 out of 5 seasons. He is also the longest serving coach in NSW history so that all equals failure. Stade francais made the semi in his first season and he left after 4 games into the second after a draw, win and two losses. If Deans's efforts at 50% are constituting success then McKenzie is a winner. If Deans gets sacked from the Wallabies job what does this say about him as a coach, or Craig Bellamy etc - thats the nature of the business they are in - the understand that it does not always go well but at least they have a go - which is more than any of us will actually do