Lions Tour Thread
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PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Meisiekind = Girlie = Wynand Olivier = Brute 12
Mossie = Mossey (that birdie you get everywhere like our house flies) = Jac Fourie = Lion 13
You call it first brave move, most Saffer supporters dont like brave moves but then they all moan just about everything.
I think its about time and all this players was in good touch in the S14 and only Kirschner a newbie. You all know what he can do on the field.
Mossie = Mossey (that birdie you get everywhere like our house flies) = Jac Fourie = Lion 13
You call it first brave move, most Saffer supporters dont like brave moves but then they all moan just about everything.
I think its about time and all this players was in good touch in the S14 and only Kirschner a newbie. You all know what he can do on the field.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
South Africa: 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 Odwa Ndungane, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Wynand Olivier, 11 Jongi Nokwe, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Ryan Kankowski, 7 Juan Smith, 6 Heinrich Brussow, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Johann Muller, 3 John Smit, 2 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 1 Tendai Mtawarira.
Replacements: 16 Bismarck du Plessis, 17 Guthro Steenkamp, 18 Dean Carstens, 19 Steven Sykes, 20 Pierre Spies, 21 Ruan Pienaar, 22 Frans Steyn.
Nice, all the newbies in there and even Sucks get his change from the bench.
Replacements: 16 Bismarck du Plessis, 17 Guthro Steenkamp, 18 Dean Carstens, 19 Steven Sykes, 20 Pierre Spies, 21 Ruan Pienaar, 22 Frans Steyn.
Nice, all the newbies in there and even Sucks get his change from the bench.
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
Very inexperienced back 3. Nokwe has two tests and Odwa one or two (bad ones he was crap in his pnly starts). Lions will no doubt target them. Happy for Kirchner to start and Nokwe to get a go but I think the other wing should have been an old head.
Scrum will be weakened by the inclusion of Ralepele and Muller.
Vickery will go better this time and they will all use it to say Beast cheated in the first test. They may as well write it now. Glad for Vickery to get another go. Good bloke, good player.
STOKED for Wynand Olivier.
Scrum will be weakened by the inclusion of Ralepele and Muller.
Vickery will go better this time and they will all use it to say Beast cheated in the first test. They may as well write it now. Glad for Vickery to get another go. Good bloke, good player.
STOKED for Wynand Olivier.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Lions:
15-Rob Kearney, 14-Ugo Monye, 13-Tommy Bowe, 12-Riki Flutey, 11-Shane Williams, 10-Stephen Jones, 9-Mike Phillips, 8-Jamie Heaslip, 7-Martyn Williams, 6-Joe Worsley, 5-Paul O'Connell (captain), 4-Simon Shaw, 3-Phil Vickery, 2-Matthew Rees, 1-Andrew Sheridan.
Replacements: 16-Ross Ford, 17-John Hayes, 18-Alun-Wyn Jones, 19-David Wallace, 20-Tom Croft, 21-Harry Ellis, 22-James Hook.
15-Rob Kearney, 14-Ugo Monye, 13-Tommy Bowe, 12-Riki Flutey, 11-Shane Williams, 10-Stephen Jones, 9-Mike Phillips, 8-Jamie Heaslip, 7-Martyn Williams, 6-Joe Worsley, 5-Paul O'Connell (captain), 4-Simon Shaw, 3-Phil Vickery, 2-Matthew Rees, 1-Andrew Sheridan.
Replacements: 16-Ross Ford, 17-John Hayes, 18-Alun-Wyn Jones, 19-David Wallace, 20-Tom Croft, 21-Harry Ellis, 22-James Hook.
rustycruiser
Billy Sheehan (19)
I like the cut of this team's jib. Most of these players were the form South Africans in their position in the Super 14. Ndungane, Chilliboy, Kanko, and Muller excepted. Of coarse Muller is there due to other circumstances. I am excited to see how this team goes. Especially the Bulls 9, 10, 12 axis, and of course the ever exciting Jongi Nokwe. He may be inexperianced, but is a bloody exciting player. Glad to see Sykes getting the call up too. He is in the waiting in the wings for when Bakkies and Victor move on.PaarlBok said:
10 changes, yet I feel confident. Good depth is a nice thing to have
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
A very good team given the series is already won. Snor can start building a bit of depth as it was damn hard to get into the Bok team before.
Am very pleased for Olivier. He was better in the S14 this year than JdV and I would have put him into the starting team for the 1st test of the winter had it been a normal opponent, but JdV's experience was needed for the Lions. Good to see Jacque Fourie starting too. I don't know why Jacobs got to start in the other two tests ahead of him.
This will be Morné Steyn's chance to nail down the flyhalf spot for 3N. Pienaar was out for a while and when he came back he was not as convincing as Steyn was in his stint last weekend.
Brussow should have started last week even though Burger was fit. Another good showing will convince Snor that one elite fetcher has more value than another basher and runner.
Well done to Kirchner; he deserved his chance; he's another I picked to start in the 1st test; but I hope that he keeps his nose clean.
Given that all these changes were made - what does Vermaak have to do to get a run?
Am very pleased for Olivier. He was better in the S14 this year than JdV and I would have put him into the starting team for the 1st test of the winter had it been a normal opponent, but JdV's experience was needed for the Lions. Good to see Jacque Fourie starting too. I don't know why Jacobs got to start in the other two tests ahead of him.
This will be Morné Steyn's chance to nail down the flyhalf spot for 3N. Pienaar was out for a while and when he came back he was not as convincing as Steyn was in his stint last weekend.
Brussow should have started last week even though Burger was fit. Another good showing will convince Snor that one elite fetcher has more value than another basher and runner.
Well done to Kirchner; he deserved his chance; he's another I picked to start in the 1st test; but I hope that he keeps his nose clean.
Given that all these changes were made - what does Vermaak have to do to get a run?
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
Lee:
Vermaak is unlikely to feature unless there is a string of injuries. As long as Pienaar is in the 22, another scrummie will rarely make it onto the bench. The choice of Januarie in the first test was outright arrogance by Snor., The entire world was incensed by Januarie even making the squad so in true style he gave us all the finger by selecting Fatboy. Luckily he screwed up so badly that Snor had to drop him to save face. be assured that he will sneak him back in again. If another scrummie makes the 3N squad, it will be the overweight, missed training, missed team meeting, drunk in the squad hotel Januarie. Vermaak will lose out to a color selection which is sad because he has the potential to be world class.
Agreed with your sentiments regarding building depth. Its a bit of a luxury to have a Lions test to do it in. I don't buy the concerns that its a Lions test and you have to select the best team. 12 years ago I would have agreed but these days we have to manage players with 3N around the corner.
The only really dodgy selection is Odwa. Inexplicable how he got selected over his brother who is bigger, faster and has a better kicking game as well. The Lions will try and turn our wingers around. Nokwe has fixed his defense but canlt kick for shit. Expect Fourie du Preez to continue dropping back as he did in the second test. That should be a ploy to try and combat the Lions tactics.
Only other thing that is a worry is the scrum where I think we are going to take some heat...
Vermaak is unlikely to feature unless there is a string of injuries. As long as Pienaar is in the 22, another scrummie will rarely make it onto the bench. The choice of Januarie in the first test was outright arrogance by Snor., The entire world was incensed by Januarie even making the squad so in true style he gave us all the finger by selecting Fatboy. Luckily he screwed up so badly that Snor had to drop him to save face. be assured that he will sneak him back in again. If another scrummie makes the 3N squad, it will be the overweight, missed training, missed team meeting, drunk in the squad hotel Januarie. Vermaak will lose out to a color selection which is sad because he has the potential to be world class.
Agreed with your sentiments regarding building depth. Its a bit of a luxury to have a Lions test to do it in. I don't buy the concerns that its a Lions test and you have to select the best team. 12 years ago I would have agreed but these days we have to manage players with 3N around the corner.
The only really dodgy selection is Odwa. Inexplicable how he got selected over his brother who is bigger, faster and has a better kicking game as well. The Lions will try and turn our wingers around. Nokwe has fixed his defense but canlt kick for shit. Expect Fourie du Preez to continue dropping back as he did in the second test. That should be a ploy to try and combat the Lions tactics.
Only other thing that is a worry is the scrum where I think we are going to take some heat...
Grandmaster Flash
Johnnie Wallace (23)
Lions up 15-3 about 5 minutes before half-time. Frenetic game so far and very entertaining for a neutral. Williams has scored two great tries and the Lions have looked dangerous in the backs. Flutey having a great game.
Grandmaster Flash
Johnnie Wallace (23)
Lions win 28-9. Really impressed with the Lions performance, Phillips, Heaslip and Flutey were great. Boks really lacked cohesion and the forwards seems pretty lost, missed Bakkies.
rustycruiser
Billy Sheehan (19)
rustycruiser said:
Clearly I know nothing about rugby! :
Grandmaster Flash said:
Agree. Kearney of course, was also excellent. Flutey enjoyed finally playing in a team who knew what to do with the pill. Interestingly the Boks couldn't live with the pace of super quick ball.
For the Boks, out of a poor performance (deserved with those fucking teenager armbands) I thought Broussow was ominously good and Morne Steyn was again solid.
Hope Gits & Barnes are practising short chip kicks (KB (Kurtley Beale) Style) behind the scrum and rucks. Worked a treat.
Thought Dicko also had a good game with the whistle
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Yes Dicko was good and, as I have said before: had he been the touch judge in the 2nd test the Lions would probably have won that one as I have no doubt whatsoever that he would have recommended a red card for Burger - perhaps even before he was asked.
That was the key decision, or non-decision, of the series and it will rile Lions fans for decades.
Had the 1st test been refereed as the 3rd one was, the Lions may have won that one also, though they contributed a lot to that loss themselves.
Without counting them, the Lions seemed to have as many 1st pick players out of their 1st XV in the 3rd test, as the Boks did - for different reasons. Also, they had more players missing from their best match day 22 than the Boks did.
It is natural that the Lions "reserves" who started the game would be more experienced than the Boks "reserves" who started, but nevertheless Snor would have been disappointed with the performance of some of his players who were given a run.
Congratulations to the Boks for winning the series but kudos to the Lions also after losing so many players from their best 22 and smacking the Boks so comprehensively.
After 6N I said Lee Byrne was the best fullback in the world and when he was injured I was concerned for the Lions. But yesterday Rob Kearney showed the same form that he showed in Melbourne last year when he was man of the match for Ireland in a losing team. His running from deep is a breath of fresh air in our game yet he is one of the best exponents of the attacking bomb, more frequent now under the 22 ELV and the need to unlock sophisticated defences. He is also an ace defuser of them, as Byrne is.
Bowe has had terrific series and wore the 13 jersey well, combining well with 12 Flutey, who is a far better player now than when he was playing at home. 7 Martyn Willams also had a great day and it was good see Shane Williams show a bit of 2008 form.
It was a top performance but spoiled by the thuggish behaviour of Simon Shaw putting his knee deliberately into FdP's back. He has a history of this: he kneed an All Black about 5 years ago and got a red card, though it was a lot less harmful than what happened at Ellis Park. He could have got a red card yesterday but since eye gouging gets only a yellow card, it was always unlikely.
That was the key decision, or non-decision, of the series and it will rile Lions fans for decades.
Had the 1st test been refereed as the 3rd one was, the Lions may have won that one also, though they contributed a lot to that loss themselves.
Without counting them, the Lions seemed to have as many 1st pick players out of their 1st XV in the 3rd test, as the Boks did - for different reasons. Also, they had more players missing from their best match day 22 than the Boks did.
It is natural that the Lions "reserves" who started the game would be more experienced than the Boks "reserves" who started, but nevertheless Snor would have been disappointed with the performance of some of his players who were given a run.
Congratulations to the Boks for winning the series but kudos to the Lions also after losing so many players from their best 22 and smacking the Boks so comprehensively.
After 6N I said Lee Byrne was the best fullback in the world and when he was injured I was concerned for the Lions. But yesterday Rob Kearney showed the same form that he showed in Melbourne last year when he was man of the match for Ireland in a losing team. His running from deep is a breath of fresh air in our game yet he is one of the best exponents of the attacking bomb, more frequent now under the 22 ELV and the need to unlock sophisticated defences. He is also an ace defuser of them, as Byrne is.
Bowe has had terrific series and wore the 13 jersey well, combining well with 12 Flutey, who is a far better player now than when he was playing at home. 7 Martyn Willams also had a great day and it was good see Shane Williams show a bit of 2008 form.
It was a top performance but spoiled by the thuggish behaviour of Simon Shaw putting his knee deliberately into FdP's back. He has a history of this: he kneed an All Black about 5 years ago and got a red card, though it was a lot less harmful than what happened at Ellis Park. He could have got a red card yesterday but since eye gouging gets only a yellow card, it was always unlikely.
Frans Steyn continues to highlight his failings.
He seems to fail to understand that rugby is a team sport.
55m show boat field goals and dumb crash ball was all he offered.
The Lions just got too much freedom in the tackle area by getting too many passes away in the tackle.
He seems to fail to understand that rugby is a team sport.
55m show boat field goals and dumb crash ball was all he offered.
The Lions just got too much freedom in the tackle area by getting too many passes away in the tackle.
Couldn't agree more. I really enjoyed this game, and well played to the Lions for a good win.fatprop said:
Steyn is like a child in a big man's body. All the physical prowess, kicks it a mile, but not a good team player, and often petulant when it doesn't go his way. He tries to bully his way around a bit, but in international rugby there's plenty of players as big who are tougher and it won't work. I will always be happy to see him picked against us while he remembers the 2 droppies that sunk us in the past, and keeps trying them with about a 5% success rate it seems. Morne Steyn waiting till he's in range then popping one is far more the dangerous player.
He could be a really good player, but he needs some serious mentoring to get some smarts in his play and let it happen. He is young.
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
The Lions were were the better team for mine and played by far the better rugby. Were it not for so many injuries sustained and dodgy refereeing, they'd have won the series.
Springboks come out of the series with little respect won. I'm puzzled by their addiction to cheapshots and off ball antics. What are they trying to accomplish ? They seem to be determined to be poor sports. They are terrible ambassadors for the sport and confirm most people's prejudice about South Africans as a people.
I suspect the Wallaby-Boks games this year will be as dull as ever. The Boks are determined to kick kick kick. The Wallabies will have seen the ruck penalties favouring the defending side and know they cannot afford to play in their own half. Can they offload & support like the Lions ?
Springboks come out of the series with little respect won. I'm puzzled by their addiction to cheapshots and off ball antics. What are they trying to accomplish ? They seem to be determined to be poor sports. They are terrible ambassadors for the sport and confirm most people's prejudice about South Africans as a people.
I suspect the Wallaby-Boks games this year will be as dull as ever. The Boks are determined to kick kick kick. The Wallabies will have seen the ruck penalties favouring the defending side and know they cannot afford to play in their own half. Can they offload & support like the Lions ?
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
cyclopath said:
He is young, but has 30 tests under the belt. There can be no more excuses for taking pot shots all the time and crashing the ball up without thinking abotu actually retaining it or looking for support and an offload. Maybe a lot more people have been taken in by a couple of big drop goals but as time wears on there's a lot more talk about Steyn than there is action from him on the park.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
cyclopath said:
Happens everywhere: the bloke who was the Big Kid at school level rugby. He was bigger, better, and faster than everyone else and just got his way all the time. Big fish, little pond.
naza said:
Not for me - what they DO confirm is that some idiots make it through to the top level in ANY sport, and that perhaps their domestic system is still a little rougher around the edges than others. How often do we lament a lack of forward toughness in our domestic game? Perhaps if we were more accurate with judicial decisions internationally, these players would eventually be weeded out at Test level, and that would filter back.
*snap* Blue beat me to it... in a way.
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