Karmichael Hunt charged with cocaine supply.

[Hugh Jarse]

What rights does an employer have in these circumstances to take any ion, or get access to CCC and or police material?

Assuming that the employer can request an interview with the employee, what obligation does the employee have to answer questions, or to answer those questions honestly?
Options seem to be:

• If he tells his employer that he is guilty, they sack him there and then, under breaching the code of conduct clauses.
• If he tells them he is guilty, but is found not guilty by the courts, he is sacked and not reinstated because he has probably admitted to being in breach of a code of conduct clause in his contract.
• If he tells his employer that he is innocent, and is later found guilty, he plays and they sack him later.
• If he tells his employer that he is innocent, and the Court also delivers a verdict of not guilty, then he plays.
• If he tells them nothing, they continue to stand him down on the presumption that there is substance to the claims, then he is either found innocent (he plays from then on) or is found guilty (sacked).

To be reinstated he must be innocent, and tell ARU/QRU that he is innocent, and they must also internally determine that to be the case.

Being reinstated, to then have the Court find him guilty would be a massive embarrassment for ARU and QRU. Are they prepared to take that risk?

If he tells them nothing, or tells them he is guilty, then he is not reinstated.

Where is the ARU Integrity Board, or whatever it is called that the Pulveriser assembled to investigate KB (Kurtley Beale)'s behaviour? I would imagine that it would be a useful announcement for the ARU to make that wouldn't jeopardise any parties rights, nor paint anyone into a corner, even if it was to say that the Integrity Board investigation will not be conducted until the matter has been before the Court.

 

[fatprop]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rug...irrational-view-of-drugs-20150221-13l8fq.html

Good article from Clyde Rathbone.

Predictably, I was ignored, and rugby players in Australia are now subjected to a draconian illicit-drug policy. One that masquerades as a prophylactic in favour of player welfare, but in reality exists as a box-ticking exercise to satisfy sponsors.

And what is the matter with that?

I am pretty sure Red Krill Oil & St George Bank may not be keen to have their products linked to an "alleged" drug supplier/user

 

[Beer Baron]

And what is the matter with that?

I am pretty sure Red Krill Oil & St George Bank may not be keen to have their products linked to an "alleged" drug supplier/user

Might get employed by Red Krill Oil if his figures are impressive??

 

[Beer Baron]

However I do think Clyde's article was, whilst being thought provoking, a very one sided opinion. I don't disagree with much of it, but it didn't mention that part of being paid big $$$ is being a role model and a rep for your sponsors. If you don't want the additional scrutiny don't sign up and play amateur and work another job.
Same as being a pollie and crying foul when a slip of the tongue gets replayed 10k times.

 

[BDA]

I think the point of Clyde's article was more his opinion on the war of drugs and that he disagrees with the drug laws.

 

[Cat_A]

And what is the matter with that?

I am pretty sure Red Krill Oil & St George Bank may not be keen to have their products linked to an "alleged" drug supplier/user

Yep I usually like Rathbone's articles, but he's missed the mark on a couple (his very first one where he took aim at sponsors when for the Brumbies the gate receipts aren't enough to pay players, let alone keep the club afloat was particularly nauseating and self-righteous) and this one is really just a way to get his grandstanding about illicit drugs published.

The ARU is a signatory to WADA - voluntary initially but now that 7s is an Olympic sport, compulsory - and the 'draconian illicit drug policy' is not a rugby union-specific policy, but a policy that every single athlete in the world competing in an Olympic sport or participating in qualifying competitions is subject to. Worldwide there'd be hundreds of thousands to millions of people subject to the same restrictions. The ARU could withdraw their support of WADA, but that would cost the sport every single government dollar they receive (Olympic funding), it'd cost Australia their place in the Olympic Games and world championships for every sport... I guess if I were talking to Clyde I'd say "man up princess, this is bigger than you".

While there is a huge focus in the media on the performance enhancing benefits of drug taking, if that was the main problem then drugs would be legal and it'd be a free-for-all. The bigger problem is that combining drugs + sport is potentially fatal. Take cocaine as a crazy example: among other things it produces an increased heart rate and vasoconstriction (reduced rate of blood flow to the heart and skeletal muscles). This probably isn't a problem for players who are playing at sea level and under regular conditions because their bodies would adapt eventually. But during a particularly intense fitness session, or playing at altitude, or if you're a bit dehydrated, or if you take an extra caffeine tab or two or a new preworkout.... that increased heart rate and increased blood pressure and reduced blood flow to the heart can easily result in a heart attack on field.

And I'm not even talking about an 'overdose' - just a regular amount of coke. I've seen a much lower level effect on a chain smoking player who couldn't put his ball on the tee without shaking and was sweating and vomiting 10min into a club rugby game -> dehydration -> heat stress. And if you're a regular weed user and you get a head knock it's incredibly difficult to tell what symptoms are signs of a head injury and which are because you're stoned; a potentially fatal mistake to make. It's also why you should never ever drink with a concussion- signs of drunkenness are also signs of a massive brain bleed in progress. Also not a mistake you want to make.

So taking away the moralising about being role models to kids, and the philosophising about legalising drugs, the ARU (like the AFL and NRL!) has signed up to the WADA code, it can't be undone without Australia withdrawing from all international competition, and drugs are banned in sport because combining sport and drugs can easily be fatal, or at least risky to the immediate-, short-, and long-term health of athletes.

Yes Clyde, this really isn't about you.

 

[Slim 293]

And what is the matter with that?

I am pretty sure Red Krill Oil & St George Bank may not be keen to have their products linked to an "alleged" drug supplier/user

I imagine Coke Zero would not be too happy...........

http://www.redsrugby.com.au/Partners/MajorSponsors.aspx

 

[Viking]

I can't say I agree with Clyde's article. Having rugby players "subjected to a draconian illicit-drug policy" is not a bad thing. They are high-profile role models that should be held to a high standard.

 

[Thinker]

I thought the Professional Rugby drug bans were isolated to players caught with drugs in their system whilst competing. I highly doubt that applies to Hunt

I posted the extract from the WADA code above. This applies to all athletes, even club rugby players. Everyone signs that they will comply.

It spells it out.

If ANY WADA athlete trafficks a drug, that's an infringement.

If a rugby player acquired testosterone and gave it to their 65 year old Dad for TRT, under the WADA code they have trafficked.

If a rugby player acquires insulin and gives it to a friend, that's trafficking. Giving to their insulin dependent child is not.

Any athlete accused of supply would be far better off consuming all of the drug by themselves.

 

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Coke didn't seem to mind sponsoring Boca Junior with serial "Coke" addict Maradonna ......

 

[fatprop]

Coke didn't seem to mind sponsoring Boca Junior with serial "Coke" addict Maradonna ..

Hunt isn't Maradonna

 

[Almost 2 old]

This is my take on drugs regardless of what sport/activity that you may undertake as a professional, in recreation or the lifestyle you live.
I have been working in a corrections facility for the last 2 years and if anyone has any doubt about what drugs can/will do,regardless of how they are obtained, you should come and work where I work. You will see the torment/irreversible damage that they do to themselves and their families let alone the lives of the victims parents,wives, husbands,siblings & children that they also leave wrecked and often unretrievable.
Any drug,legal or illegal, that is inappropriately used for whatever reason is wrong and inexcusable. Yes I know that I am taking the "moral high ground" but in this instance I think I may have some authority to do so as the possible end result is horrific.

 

[ChargerWA]

It still amazes me how much control is trying to be exerted over a non performance enhancing drug.

Putting aside the health risks, which are up to the individual to decide if taking the drugs is worth the risk, it seems WADA having control over recreational drugs as well is them over stepping the mark and acting outside their area of true responsibility.

 

[Chris McCracken]

It still amazes me how much control is trying to be exerted over a non performance enhancing drug.

Putting aside the health risks, which are up to the individual to decide if taking the drugs is worth the risk, it seems WADA having control over recreational drugs as well is them over stepping the mark and acting outside their area of true responsibility.

Athletes sign onto WADA's controls. This has nothing to do with whether it is right to police drug use or how that is done. It is effectively a contractual obligation with appropriately syndicated punishments.

It's no different to breaching any other behaviour code the sport puts on them.

 

[Cat_A]

Cocaine as a stimulant is a performance enhancing drug, Charger. It makes people more alert and less responsive to pain.

 

[I like to watch]

Yep I usually like Rathbone's articles, but he's missed the mark on a couple (his very first one where he took aim at sponsors when for the Brumbies the gate receipts aren't enough to pay players, let alone keep the club afloat was particularly nauseating and self-righteous) and this one is really just a way to get his grandstanding about illicit drugs published.

The ARU is a signatory to WADA - voluntary initially but now that 7s is an Olympic sport, compulsory - and the 'draconian illicit drug policy' is not a rugby union-specific policy, but a policy that every single athlete in the world competing in an Olympic sport or participating in qualifying competitions is subject to. Worldwide there'd be hundreds of thousands to millions of people subject to the same restrictions. The ARU could withdraw their support of WADA, but that would cost the sport every single government dollar they receive (Olympic funding), it'd cost Australia their place in the Olympic Games and world championships for every sport. I guess if I were talking to Clyde I'd say "man up princess, this is bigger than you".

While there is a huge focus in the media on the performance enhancing benefits of drug taking, if that was the main problem then drugs would be legal and it'd be a free-for-all. The bigger problem is that combining drugs + sport is potentially fatal. Take cocaine as a crazy example: among other things it produces an increased heart rate and vasoconstriction (reduced rate of blood flow to the heart and skeletal muscles). This probably isn't a problem for players who are playing at sea level and under regular conditions because their bodies would adapt eventually. But during a particularly intense fitness session, or playing at altitude, or if you're a bit dehydrated, or if you take an extra caffeine tab or two or a new preworkout.. that increased heart rate and increased blood pressure and reduced blood flow to the heart can easily result in a heart attack on field.

And I'm not even talking about an 'overdose' - just a regular amount of coke. I've seen a much lower level effect on a chain smoking player who couldn't put his ball on the tee without shaking and was sweating and vomiting 10min into a club rugby game -> dehydration -> heat stress. And if you're a regular weed user and you get a head knock it's incredibly difficult to tell what symptoms are signs of a head injury and which are because you're stoned; a potentially fatal mistake to make. It's also why you should never ever drink with a concussion- signs of drunkenness are also signs of a massive brain bleed in progress. Also not a mistake you want to make.

So taking away the moralising about being role models to kids, and the philosophising about legalising drugs, the ARU (like the AFL and NRL!) has signed up to the WADA code, it can't be undone without Australia withdrawing from all international competition, and drugs are banned in sport because combining sport and drugs can easily be fatal, or at least risky to the immediate-, short-, and long-term health of athletes.

Yes Clyde, this really isn't about you.

I am not an illicit drug taker,nor do I approve of those taking illicit drugs.
But I believe it's a matter that has nothing to do with ASADA/WADA.
lets get off our high horses, 99.999999% of cocaine use is for recreational purposes and not as a performance enhancer.
KHunt or anyone else caught supplying for friends or for profit should face the consequences in our courts,and from their employer for bringing them into disrepute.
They have no case to answer to an organisation that's sole aim is to police performance enhancement.
look at Danny Wicks, he was caught supplying drugs & did 18 months in the big house,but received a 4 year ban.
The only performance enhancements amongst his clients was on the dance floor in the Wallsend RSL.
Joke!

 

[Cat_A]

I couldn't agree more, ILTW, but I was responding to Rathbone's contention that the illicit drug policy is 'draconian' and masquerading as player welfare.

 

[BDA]

What rights does an employer have in these circumstances to take any ion, or get access to CCC and or police material?

None, but I imagine it'll be in the interests of the players to provide their employers with a copy of the QP9s (document containing the arresting officer's allegations) when they are received.

 

[ChargerWA]

Cocaine as a stimulant is a performance enhancing drug, Charger. It makes people more alert and less responsive to pain.

If so, I can understand game day testing. But used recreationally 4 months out of competition?

 

[Cat_A]

If so, I can understand game day testing. But used recreationally 4 months out of competition?

Rugby players have 4 weeks annual leave a year, where they are still expected to do some semblance of fitness training. So it may be 4 months from a competition but at the most it's only 4 weeks to the next hard training session.

Surely being more alert and resistant to pain would allow you to train harder and therefore get better gains and improvements (and impress the coaches) than non-users?

And most sports have differing in- and out-of-competition testing.