Jake White's "Back in Time" Coaches: Masterstroke or Mistake?

[RedsHappy]

What with Gregan, Fisher, Larkham, Jones all coming back to Canberra (or reappointed) in various roles, Jake White has dipped into the human Brumbie Museum big time, and clearly, by weight of numbers, a big call on his part.

New coaches hired to make radical changes usually go outwards and forward and seek new, not back in time to the previous generations of the same DNA.

David Lord's article below makes this point quite well, with some savage bite to it.

Your views posters?

http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/05/19/why-white-has-wronged-in-picking-jones-and-gregan/

 

[Geeves]

In cattle terms its called line breeding in human terms its called something else. I think the reappointment of former players as coaches when they need a fresh approach will suffer the problems when the same sire is used to long.

The Brumbies used to attract new and exciting blood and the chip they used to have on their shoulder (or proudly worn) about being started from the outcasts drove them to excel. They just don't have that mentality any more. I loved the Real Madrid label that got last year. They went from being the exciting underdogs to the place to be where the players had ultimate control. If anyone read the John Eales' book the comments about the player power and how that system was not going to work at international level was interesting.

I think unlike the past where you had players that had the tactical nous to help guide the side and the style of game they wanted to play is not evident in their playing roster. So now when they need a good coach with fresh ideas to challenge my most hated term 'tradition' the player power ends up sacking the coach. I will be very surprised if Jake White gets the full four year term if they are still struggling.

 

[Slim 293]

I gave up on the article after reading too much anti-Gregan bile...

Retired 4 years too late?

He was still a world class halfback in 2007...

However, the decision to bring in Jones and Gregan is not very surprising as he already commented he'd be seeking former Brumbies' personnel for consulting purposes...

The appointment of Fisher as forwards coach is the interesting one... hasn't done too well with Munster...

 

[Brumby Jack]

For those interested, Jake White will be on Canberra radio at about 10:30. Listen online here http://www.abc.net.au/canberra/

 

[Scarfman]

With people like Gregan and Larkham playing, who needs a coach?

Today they just have Giteau, who with all due respect as a talented athlete, doesn't know how to run a backline.

 

[chasmac]

Eddie Jones coaching is heavily based on implementing systems. In this regard he is similar to Brian Smith in the NRL. IMO this is useful in getting a group to a certain level but seems to be self limiting. Brian Smith falls short at the final hurdle (no premierships) and Eddie Jones fell short in '03. Furthermore, the All Blacks started reading the Jones playbook better than the Wallabies and started a long run of consecutive victories against us. Jones should be good for the Brumbies initially to implement some rigourous structure, then he should be moved on.

 

[chasmac]

I have a question regarding Eddie Jones. Why did he get such poor results with the Reds when he was there. Injuries, Roster, HQ were all part of it from memory. What do the forum posters think?

 

[rugbysmartarse]

from what I've heard from a reds player at the time, it was a pretty toxic atmosphere while Eddie was at the reds - maybe that was just one players perspective as he left soon after (and went on to bigger an better things)

 

[Ash]

The stories went that Eddie Jones have no player management skills. He simply couldn't, or wouldn't, communicate with them, resulting in a disastrous atmosphere. Combine that with a load of injuries, little to no squad depth (despite a competitive 1st XV if there were no injuries) and mismanagement and incompetence at board level, and you have a massive issue. In an atmosphere like that it's hard enough getting your first choice players to perform, let alone your second choice players who need to perform out of their skin to keep the side competitive.

The injuries were another issue entirely. There were stories of poor S&C, with the squad being overly flogged up until the start of the season.

 

[Reido]

Might be another case like bringing McQueen out of retirement. The aspirations of living past glories. For the sake of Australian Rugby, I hope I'm wrong, but seriously, when has this tactic ever worked? Connolly with the Wallabies, Jones with the Reds, McQueen with the Rebels hasn't proved successful. Link was fired but that was a management brain fart by the powers that be within nswru.

 

[Slim 293]

It could be different for Macqueen if he had a decent playing group...

 

[hench]

I gave up on the article after reading too much anti-Gregan bile...

Retired 4 years too late?

He was still a world class halfback in 2007...

However, the decision to bring in Jones and Gregan is not very surprising as he already commented he'd be seeking former Brumbies' personnel for consulting purposes...

The appointment of Fisher as forwards coach is the interesting one... hasn't done too well with Munster...

The semi win over NZ in 2003 gave him an extra 4 years of his career.

Don't kid yourself.

 

[Slim 293]

Name a halfback in Australia in that time who was better?

There were none, and Gregan was still playing some good footy.

 

[Slim 293]

Can this thread please be retitled to:

Jake White pursues Matt Dunning: Masterstroke or Mistake?

 

[hench]

Name a halfback in Australia in that time who was better?

There were none, and Gregan was still playing some good footy.

What's that got to do with anything?

The best player doesn't always get chosen for the Wallabies. Gregan was going to be made the scapegoat and was definitely in the firing line around that time.

 

[qwerty51]

What's that got to do with anything?

Um everything? Gregan was the best player at the time so how did he go on for too long?

 

[Slim 293]

I would like to think that the best players get chosen for the Wallabies...

Otherwise, what's the point?

 

[jay-c]

Might be another case like bringing McQueen out of retirement. The aspirations of living past glories. For the sake of Australian Rugby, I hope I'm wrong, but seriously, when has this tactic ever worked? Connolly with the Wallabies, Jones with the Reds, McQueen with the Rebels hasn't proved successful. Link was fired but that was a management brain fart by the powers that be within nswru.

i would argue that the rebels have had a sucessful year
some gutsy wins but a couple of floggings by well established teams was to be expected> but the emergence of some players like phipps weeks and pyle and reemergence of players like gerrard have really given the wallabies new options>
considering their playing roster the rebels have done very well> they are a team that have established a culture and will build on this and their results in the years to come>> asking any more than this is to belittle the elite level of the super 15

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I wouldn't say that George played four years too long, but I do believe that he was past his best before he retired. Chris Whittaker would have been an able replacement and should have played more footy than he did. I'd split the difference and say that George should have pulled the pin in 2005. None of this should be construed as a bagging of the man, I think he was a great player for a long period of time. But by the end he looked slow and indecisive.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

i would argue that the rebels have had a sucessful year
some gutsy wins but a couple of floggings by well established teams was to be expected> but the emergence of some players like phipps weeks and pyle and reemergence of players like gerrard have really given the wallabies new options>
considering their playing roster the rebels have done very well> they are a team that have established a culture and will build on this and their results in the years to come>> asking any more than this is to belittle the elite level of the super 15

Agree with that. MacQueen has done well this year and has done more with the Rebels than I expected.