The questions are asked by the media though. If the first Q is about the ref, then he starts off talking about the ref.
I don't think he did much wrong here. Which is in contrast to a few other post match pressers this year.
.
Ireland v Australia, Saturday 26 November
- Thread starter Lindommer
- Start date
- Status
The questions are asked by the media though. If the first Q is about the ref, then he starts off talking about the ref.
I don't think he did much wrong here. Which is in contrast to a few other post match pressers this year.
.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
There is no doubt at all the Wallabies had that game there for the picking. They lost it fair and square to a Irish side that displayed strength and accuracy at their set piece unlike the Wallabies. Their discipline was also top shelf though they could have been called for offside a few times. Its hard to call out the Ref on that display given he called a few offences correctly that I missed totally in real time on the TV. I thought he had a pretty good game.
For mine the game was lost in the set piece and the now all to familiar inaccuracy at key moments.
The backs were all pretty good and I think Folau will be kicking himself for his lack of vision. Speight defended OK but as with every other game he has played in Wallaby colours is pretty absent in attack.
In the forwards, I said after the first win against the Argies when the Pooper was injuried that I truly hoped it was the last time we saws it. Then the games with Timani at 8 were such a "revelation", who'd have thought picking a balanced backrow could have such an impact, like picking a 12 at 12 and wingers on the wings. Well for all the supposed advanatges of having two 7s on the field the Wallabies barely pressured the Irish breakdown. FFS just pick one and bench the other. Pocock is not an 8, his control at the scrum is poor and his running game far from dominant. One or the other at 7, I don't give a shit which.
Moore is just a shadow of what he was a few years ago. He has a brilliant game even 3 or 4 and the rest is average or less. In every aspect of play I would back Ready or Latu in front of him at the moment.
Simmons - the second row equivalent of Richard Brown. Runs around involved in everything and makes next to no impact.
Mumm - the cleanout was a return to the worst aspect of the Wallabies this year. Inaccurate. Arnold's hand on the face of the THP could also have been deserving of attention, contact such as that with the face regardless of intent just cannot be allowed. The high tackle was just unfortunate as Payne? looked to duck into the contact which rode up. Again regardless it was a penalty but it cannot be argued there was ever intent in the action. Mumm showed in other aspects why he is selected in front of Fardy IMO, while he was on the Irish did not get any ascendancy in the Maul and during the period of their total first half dominance he took a line out turnover and a maul turnover. That said, IMO it is a very real pity that Ben Mowen is lost to Australian Rugby because in every aspect he is/was a better player than Mumm and Fardy both.
Slipper - he should be in Oz having an off season and getting himself right. Like Moore but without the excuse of approaching dotage he is not a patch on his best.
It was a pretty good game, high intensity and pace, and the Wallabies have improved a lot from the their first games of the year.
Do we think that the tour and the year is a success or even a foundation to build on? Really the numbers and the manner of the losses has been pretty bad and some key aspects like discipline have not improved at all.
I had thought that the RWC provided a good foundation and the Wallabies exceeded my expectations by a long way in 2015, with that bright light in my eyes I have been pretty disappointed with most of this year. I have no idea what the answer to the question I posed is.
For mine the game was lost in the set piece and the now all to familiar inaccuracy at key moments.
The backs were all pretty good and I think Folau will be kicking himself for his lack of vision. Speight defended OK but as with every other game he has played in Wallaby colours is pretty absent in attack.
In the forwards, I said after the first win against the Argies when the Pooper was injuried that I truly hoped it was the last time we saws it. Then the games with Timani at 8 were such a "revelation", who'd have thought picking a balanced backrow could have such an impact, like picking a 12 at 12 and wingers on the wings. Well for all the supposed advanatges of having two 7s on the field the Wallabies barely pressured the Irish breakdown. FFS just pick one and bench the other. Pocock is not an 8, his control at the scrum is poor and his running game far from dominant. One or the other at 7, I don't give a shit which.
Moore is just a shadow of what he was a few years ago. He has a brilliant game even 3 or 4 and the rest is average or less. In every aspect of play I would back Ready or Latu in front of him at the moment.
Simmons - the second row equivalent of Richard Brown. Runs around involved in everything and makes next to no impact.
Mumm - the cleanout was a return to the worst aspect of the Wallabies this year. Inaccurate. Arnold's hand on the face of the THP could also have been deserving of attention, contact such as that with the face regardless of intent just cannot be allowed. The high tackle was just unfortunate as Payne? looked to duck into the contact which rode up. Again regardless it was a penalty but it cannot be argued there was ever intent in the action. Mumm showed in other aspects why he is selected in front of Fardy IMO, while he was on the Irish did not get any ascendancy in the Maul and during the period of their total first half dominance he took a line out turnover and a maul turnover. That said, IMO it is a very real pity that Ben Mowen is lost to Australian Rugby because in every aspect he is/was a better player than Mumm and Fardy both.
Slipper - he should be in Oz having an off season and getting himself right. Like Moore but without the excuse of approaching dotage he is not a patch on his best.
It was a pretty good game, high intensity and pace, and the Wallabies have improved a lot from the their first games of the year.
Do we think that the tour and the year is a success or even a foundation to build on? Really the numbers and the manner of the losses has been pretty bad and some key aspects like discipline have not improved at all.
I had thought that the RWC provided a good foundation and the Wallabies exceeded my expectations by a long way in 2015, with that bright light in my eyes I have been pretty disappointed with most of this year. I have no idea what the answer to the question I posed is.
T
TOCC
Guest
I honestly can't fathom how you can talk up Mumms selection over Fardy whilst taking aim at Simmons after that match... preconceived opinions are a funny thing
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I made an observation on the two aspects of Mumm's game that IMO gets him selected over Fardy and the rest was critica, that's talking up.
About your usual standard TOCC.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Maybe most of the penalties were correct (not all mind) but it was the reluctance of Garces to apply the laws even handedly that pretty much spoiled what was otherwise a cracking game.
Ireland No 7, CJ Stander?, did the best impersonation of the dark side of Richie McCaw I've seen in a long while. On a number of occasions stood in the middle of the Wallabies' side of the ruck after making a tackle and interfered with the passage of the ball to the No 9. That was the only aspect in which he could be compared with the GOAT.
T
TOCC
Guest
I made an observation on the two aspects of Mumm's game that IMO gets him selected over Fardy and the rest was critica, that's talking up.
No need to make it personal Gnostic
Irish did have ascendancy in the maul in the first half, Douglas made a bigger impact then Mumm at the maul defence when he came on in the 2nd half. Unless you are talking about the ascendency the Irish had when the Wallabies were down a player?
As for lineout steals, Fardy isn't a stranger to line-out steals either so its a moot point...
Mumm:
0 passes, 2 Runs for 15meters
7 tackles(lowest in the forwards) 1 miss
1 lineout win, 1 stolen
2 penalties, 1 Yellow Card
Simmons:
6 passes, 7 runs for 36meters
15 tackles, 1 miss
2 line out wins, 0 stolen
0 penalties, 0 yellow cards
As i said, pre-conceived opinions...
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
BR - I get that you don't like Simmons, but that has nothing to do with my post.
Your not seriously suggesting Simmons should be blamed for Mumm tipping the bloke up because he missed a clean out? If that is the standard to which you want to deride Simmons than mate I've got to tell you I think that's shit form.
brokendown
Bill McLean (32)
grabbing a leg then lifting,when the guy's head was by then almost on the deck,was only going to lead to one outcome!
Joe Blow
John Hipwell (52)
Thats a joke right? Best on the park.
Joe Blow
John Hipwell (52)
It was not a tip tackle. He was trying to clean him out from over the ball. It was reckless to go beyond the horizontal but as Simmons had a hold of his top end it just sort of happened. If his noggin was not held on the ground it probably would not have even been noticed.
Fair yellow because of how it went down.
Bairdy
Peter Fenwicke (45)
A little disappointing to read through the thread and see all the criticism of Garces, and seing elsewhere Cheika's moaning in the aftermath pressers about the refereeing. I wont delve into the cards but what I will bemoan was our inaccuracy and indiscipline.
With such scarce posession and territory in the first half, we really did a shit job of making the most of it when we had it. Silly offloads and unforced turnovers just squandered any semblance of continuity.
Breakdown interpretations were an issue, but again it comes back to how we dealt with them. Pocock competed well enough at the breakdowns to procure some turnovers, but for the most part, he was pinged. He and the team needed to adapt to Garces' interpretations much sooner because indiscipline really hurt us in that first 20 minutes, which was arguably where we lost the game.
There is certainly no shame in losing to Ireland, an astute and well drilled Ireland that has improved immesurably since the World Cup.
Even though the momentum swung our way in the first stanza of the second half, the Irish fightback was laudable given their injury forced changes. Their tight five got the better of us, in particular Tadhr Furlong, Rory Best, and Iain Henderson, and Van Der Flier was deservedly MoTM filling O'Brien's starting berth against the Pooper.
It's a concern that we have regressed in this area since the WC, given we play England next week.
With such scarce posession and territory in the first half, we really did a shit job of making the most of it when we had it. Silly offloads and unforced turnovers just squandered any semblance of continuity.
Breakdown interpretations were an issue, but again it comes back to how we dealt with them. Pocock competed well enough at the breakdowns to procure some turnovers, but for the most part, he was pinged. He and the team needed to adapt to Garces' interpretations much sooner because indiscipline really hurt us in that first 20 minutes, which was arguably where we lost the game.
There is certainly no shame in losing to Ireland, an astute and well drilled Ireland that has improved immesurably since the World Cup.
Even though the momentum swung our way in the first stanza of the second half, the Irish fightback was laudable given their injury forced changes. Their tight five got the better of us, in particular Tadhr Furlong, Rory Best, and Iain Henderson, and Van Der Flier was deservedly MoTM filling O'Brien's starting berth against the Pooper.
It's a concern that we have regressed in this area since the WC, given we play England next week.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
Yep not arguing Joe, I just think it will get cited under dangerous play, don't think it should, but it is illegal to lift legs in ruck/maul situation I think. I would hope that sanity rules, as ref saw the incident, dealt with it (correctly I thought), but after the Cane case last week I suspect there will still be citing (with hopefully it then been put to rest).
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
Yep Two, you can, it happened to Sam Cane for ABs last week. And happens often.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I agree but the smarter thing is to deflect it - which he never does on any issue.
He is quoted:
"We have to do that [talking about decisions] with the refs mate. They've told us that we can't talk about it in public because they don't want the interpretations being made public. That's the edict they've given us and we can't say anything about it. We'd love to but we're not allowed to. I don't want to get myself in any strife and I think we've made the point clear and we'll go through the proper channels with Alan Rolland and we'll get onto the game."
I don't think world rugby should be trying to keep interpretations secret: public disbelief of rulings undermines he whole game and trying to keep the "guidelines" secret amounts to acceptance that the laws are wrong......or the interpretations are.
They need to fix the maul interpretation because we went from what should have been a turnover to a penalty goal: when what is a maul under the laws collapses 9 times out of 10 you can't roll away
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Doesn't matter, I you lift an opponent's body beyond the horizontal then you are responsible for whatever happens afterwards. Doesn't matter if it is a clean out or a tackle, it's treated the same. Where the head hits the ground first, then it's supposed to be an automatic red card - hence the citing.
IIRC we had a player red carded in the same match a couple of years back for a similar action - Kuridrani?.
Found it.
gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
It was obstruction. Clear as day from the very first viewing.
There weren't too many problems with the infringements the referee penalised, it was the infringements he didn't that were the issue - and he was extremely forgiving of the Irish.
This who are saying that to whinge about the referee is to ignore our own deficiencies are ignoring the fact that it is possible to do both.
The referee was poor and favoured the Irish AND the wallabies executed their chances poorly.
There's no "getting used to" a referee that is ignoring the oppositions infringements. Theres no adjustment you can make. You can only hope that your captain can speak to the referee about it, but as I've said a million times before we have Hooper and the Genia (or Phipps) constantly screaming at the referee every second ruck, damaging our chances. We have bad form to get over, and we won't get the 50/50s until we change (and it will take years to get over, just as it did with scrums).
As to our bombing tries - the guys are coached so ridiculously poorly at Super Rugby level, I think it amazing we are as competitive as we are at the moment. Cheika and co have done a good job from what I can see and it'll be a shame to see the players go back into the hands of rank amateurs and rookie coaches next year and undo all the good work that's been done. That burns guy appears to be a great buy for the ARU, but he cant be everywhere at once and none of the super rugby franchises will appoint their own skills coach with explicit instructions to learn off him because they are run by inbreds without an ounce of abiliTy.
There weren't too many problems with the infringements the referee penalised, it was the infringements he didn't that were the issue - and he was extremely forgiving of the Irish.
This who are saying that to whinge about the referee is to ignore our own deficiencies are ignoring the fact that it is possible to do both.
The referee was poor and favoured the Irish AND the wallabies executed their chances poorly.
There's no "getting used to" a referee that is ignoring the oppositions infringements. Theres no adjustment you can make. You can only hope that your captain can speak to the referee about it, but as I've said a million times before we have Hooper and the Genia (or Phipps) constantly screaming at the referee every second ruck, damaging our chances. We have bad form to get over, and we won't get the 50/50s until we change (and it will take years to get over, just as it did with scrums).
As to our bombing tries - the guys are coached so ridiculously poorly at Super Rugby level, I think it amazing we are as competitive as we are at the moment. Cheika and co have done a good job from what I can see and it'll be a shame to see the players go back into the hands of rank amateurs and rookie coaches next year and undo all the good work that's been done. That burns guy appears to be a great buy for the ARU, but he cant be everywhere at once and none of the super rugby franchises will appoint their own skills coach with explicit instructions to learn off him because they are run by inbreds without an ounce of abiliTy.
Lee Enfield
Jimmy Flynn (14)
There were two Scottish players from the world cup who were suspended for the same thing. Yellow card deserved, guy is a muppet
- Status