Ireland NZ Tour 2022
- Thread starter waiopehu oldboy
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zer0
John Thornett (49)
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Obviously people will talk about the cards but I'm not convinced we'd have won that 15 v 15, somehow we just looked a bit "off" as in two-week-old-mince "off".
Dismal Pillock
Michael Lynagh (62)
LOL@AB GAME PLAN. SPEND ENTIRE MATCH IN THEIR OWN HALF RUNNING UP INTO TRAFFIC AND EXPECTING THE SEAS TO PART. NO PLAN B
LOL@Paper Tiger Pat. NOT the man you want in a goalline stand
LOL@Big Les. fahhhhking hoooopelesss. Brought nothing, defensive liability
LOL@ O'Mahony giving the completely uninspiring All Black captain a big fucking serve after his team repel yet another feeble and childlike AB forward pack attempt to broach their goalline
LOL@fozzie adding yet another first-ever AB fail to his long list of historic losses
LOL@AB tight 5. Ownd, pwnd, neutered and emasculated. They have names.
LOL@Paper Tiger Pat. NOT the man you want in a goalline stand
LOL@Big Les. fahhhhking hoooopelesss. Brought nothing, defensive liability
LOL@ O'Mahony giving the completely uninspiring All Black captain a big fucking serve after his team repel yet another feeble and childlike AB forward pack attempt to broach their goalline
LOL@fozzie adding yet another first-ever AB fail to his long list of historic losses
LOL@AB tight 5. Ownd, pwnd, neutered and emasculated. They have names.
BOWER
TAYLOR
OFA
SCROTE BARRATT
RETALLICK
MAY THEIR NAMES BE ETCHED INDELIBLY UPON THE TOMBSTONE OF IGNOMINY AND MAY THEIR LEGACIES LIVE LONG IN THE ANNALS OF MISERY, FAILURE, INEPTITUDE & RUGBY FOOTBALL TEST MATCH HUMILIATION.
TAYLOR
OFA
SCROTE BARRATT
RETALLICK
MAY THEIR NAMES BE ETCHED INDELIBLY UPON THE TOMBSTONE OF IGNOMINY AND MAY THEIR LEGACIES LIVE LONG IN THE ANNALS OF MISERY, FAILURE, INEPTITUDE & RUGBY FOOTBALL TEST MATCH HUMILIATION.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
I had just said same thing to son WOB, Irish were bloody good, and ABs had a mare. Probably one of worst ABs performances for a long time.
Jeffrey
Chris McKivat (8)
Been a bad week down with a mysterious illness.
Glad that there's a good weekend of rugby ahead, starting with a historic Irish win. It hurts that my team lost, but congrats to the Irish, well-deserved.
Rugby, like all sports, has its narratives driven by results. Last week, we were slightly better, but the narrative was that this was a strong NZ win, and our past woes are behind us. This is simply not true.
On attack - just compare the Irish and the AB attack. The Irish have layers of deception, with the ball carrier having options inside and outside. Sometimes, this is off 9, sometimes off 10. There is variation, and we always look like we struggle to cope with the easy metres they carved us up on. In contrast, the ABs' attack is telegraphed. It is often a one-off ball-runner, with the hope of getting quick ball. Everyone knows what is going to happen. This year, we have introduced a slight variation. Aaron Smith almost never hits the first man, but the 2nd or 3rd, checking the defence. It's not a bad strategy, but it's not enough. There needs to be more variation, more deception, more strategy. It can't just be players figuring things out themselves.
On defence - you can't fault grit today. The ABs defended short-handed for long periods, and did a decent job. I have stressed multiple times that there is only 1 way to defend at the highest level, and that is a rush defence. It looks like the ABs will never adopt this, but there are glimpses of greater line-speed. If we look at Peter O'Mahoney's reaction near the end of the game, I thought that's the difference. We had the same commitment, but we do not have the same aggression. When Australia played England with 14 man, Dave Rennie's very first point at the half time speech was "Brutality" - mentally, we are not wired to be brutal. Players like Ofa, George, Codie, Patrick - they are committed, but placid. Ofa gets one-two big hits when someone runs at him, but on the goal line , on desperation, he shows no urgency nor aggression. It's just about making the tackle (and sometimes on the wrong fella).
It is the patterns of play that coaches look for, because patterns indicate replicability. The ABs score a lot of tries off individual brilliance, intercepts, turnovers, kick-receives, and sometimes, sheer good fortune, like BB's first which ricocheted off his shin. But we do not convince with our ability to build up to tries. Conversely, we just do not show the ability to cope with variations or brutality of opponent attack.
Great teams rise from being able to recognise, and not gloss over weaknesses. These are weaknesses that have sadly remained for some time now.
For mine, Scott Barrett was good. Sam Cane was ok.
Quinn was poor, especially with his hands. Leicester, one of my favourite players, completely lost track of what to do defensively several times. Folau was messy when he came on. Ofa was poor, but in the latter stage was clearly tired. The maul went well. The scrums was ok with 7. The lineout was pretty good. But the structures in general play weren't. Finally, discipline boys. What was Codie Taylor doing giving away that ruck penalty? We give away too many penalties for no good reason.
Alot of commentators here say Ardie Savea is just a show-pony who can't tackle and doesnt make metres at the highest level. This is objectively incorrect becuase he always makes the most metres of any forward in the worst of our games. I thought today highlighted the difference - he remains our best ball carrier, and the momentum from his go-forward sometimes shifts the game.
Glad that there's a good weekend of rugby ahead, starting with a historic Irish win. It hurts that my team lost, but congrats to the Irish, well-deserved.
Rugby, like all sports, has its narratives driven by results. Last week, we were slightly better, but the narrative was that this was a strong NZ win, and our past woes are behind us. This is simply not true.
On attack - just compare the Irish and the AB attack. The Irish have layers of deception, with the ball carrier having options inside and outside. Sometimes, this is off 9, sometimes off 10. There is variation, and we always look like we struggle to cope with the easy metres they carved us up on. In contrast, the ABs' attack is telegraphed. It is often a one-off ball-runner, with the hope of getting quick ball. Everyone knows what is going to happen. This year, we have introduced a slight variation. Aaron Smith almost never hits the first man, but the 2nd or 3rd, checking the defence. It's not a bad strategy, but it's not enough. There needs to be more variation, more deception, more strategy. It can't just be players figuring things out themselves.
On defence - you can't fault grit today. The ABs defended short-handed for long periods, and did a decent job. I have stressed multiple times that there is only 1 way to defend at the highest level, and that is a rush defence. It looks like the ABs will never adopt this, but there are glimpses of greater line-speed. If we look at Peter O'Mahoney's reaction near the end of the game, I thought that's the difference. We had the same commitment, but we do not have the same aggression. When Australia played England with 14 man, Dave Rennie's very first point at the half time speech was "Brutality" - mentally, we are not wired to be brutal. Players like Ofa, George, Codie, Patrick - they are committed, but placid. Ofa gets one-two big hits when someone runs at him, but on the goal line , on desperation, he shows no urgency nor aggression. It's just about making the tackle (and sometimes on the wrong fella).
It is the patterns of play that coaches look for, because patterns indicate replicability. The ABs score a lot of tries off individual brilliance, intercepts, turnovers, kick-receives, and sometimes, sheer good fortune, like BB's first which ricocheted off his shin. But we do not convince with our ability to build up to tries. Conversely, we just do not show the ability to cope with variations or brutality of opponent attack.
Great teams rise from being able to recognise, and not gloss over weaknesses. These are weaknesses that have sadly remained for some time now.
For mine, Scott Barrett was good. Sam Cane was ok.
Quinn was poor, especially with his hands. Leicester, one of my favourite players, completely lost track of what to do defensively several times. Folau was messy when he came on. Ofa was poor, but in the latter stage was clearly tired. The maul went well. The scrums was ok with 7. The lineout was pretty good. But the structures in general play weren't. Finally, discipline boys. What was Codie Taylor doing giving away that ruck penalty? We give away too many penalties for no good reason.
Alot of commentators here say Ardie Savea is just a show-pony who can't tackle and doesnt make metres at the highest level. This is objectively incorrect becuase he always makes the most metres of any forward in the worst of our games. I thought today highlighted the difference - he remains our best ball carrier, and the momentum from his go-forward sometimes shifts the game.
Kenny Powers
Ron Walden (29)
Whatever it was it must have been salty.
Kevin77
Fred Wood (13)
Bump
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Got injured again, not sure your point?
Kevin77
Fred Wood (13)
Yet his teams keep winning when he starts matches.
He’s a phenomenal player.
what the wallabies would do to have an injury prone 36 year old half as good as him at 10
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Well he lost last week and Leinster lost 2 major semi finals. So....?
Not a fucking chance the Wallabies would take Sexton over Quade or JOC (James O'Connor).
Also, he will have some type of brain or muscle atrophy disease by the time he's 60.
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Kevin77
Fred Wood (13)
To New Zealand. At Eden Park. Something no one has done in most current players lifetimes.
Sexton is still a better 10 than either Cooper or O’Conor has ever been.
Your stats you quoted are meaningless
sexton didn’t start URC semi.
ireland manage players game time hence Sexton plays a controlled number of games.
In the last year he’s played brilliantly away to England and New Zealand and at home to New Zealand.
It’s trendy to write him off but he’s still top notch and if you can’t see that after tonight I’m wasting my breath
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waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Just watching the replay & geez AB dodged a bullet when Ofa got binned, there's no way JBar stops Ringrose if the pass is made. I've seen PT's given for less. There's also an argument to be made that Fainga'anuku's Yellow should have been Red: would've been harsh & possibly down-graded at the judiciary but, as with the Ofa thing, Reds have been given for similar collisions.
Edit: the Ta'avao Red just looks more Red every time I see it.
Edit: the Ta'avao Red just looks more Red every time I see it.
Willin1
Allen Oxlade (6)
True.
Scores in both tests flattered the ABs.
One more test against Ireland, 2 v Oz, 2 v the Boks away, then away against England and Wales.
At this rate I reckon at least another 3 losses. What a farce!
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
"According to World Rugby, four laws come into play here.
"First: “Scrums will become uncontested if either team cannot field a suitably trained front row or if the referee so orders.”
"Then: “Uncontested scrums as a result of a sending off, temporary suspension or injury must be played with eight players per side.” And: “In a squad of 23 players or at the discretion of the match organiser, a player whose departure has caused the referee to order uncontested scrums cannot be replaced.”
"Finally, law 3.20: “If a front-row player is sent off, and the team cannot continue with contested scrums with players already on the field, then the team nominates another player to leave the playing area to enable an available front-row player to come on. The nominated player may act as a replacement.”
Subsequently clarified thus:
- If the team cannot field a suitable front row uncontested scrums must be ordered. The permanently suspended (front row) player cannot be replaced.
- The (permanently suspended player) caused uncontested scrums to be ordered therefore the team lose a player. The team must nominate a player to leave the field.
- A remaining substitute (front row player) must be used in the front row of the uncontested scrums. Another player must be nominated to leave the field to allow him/her to come on to the field to play.
- The team plays with 13 players for the remainder of the match.
- Both teams must form with eight players in the scrum
Uncontested scrum laws explained - Rugby World magazine
We look at the uncontested scrum laws and why Italy went down to 13 players against Ireland in this year's Six Nations championship
www.rugbyworld.com
My reading of that is AB should've been down to 13 unless WR (World Rugby) changed something after the Ireland v Italy match referenced in the article. Also explains why Ireland knew what the rules were whereas NZ clearly did not.
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Dan54
David Wilson (68)
There is one good outcome, I going to next week's test , and it a decider so will make for fun night.
I mean last time I went to a decider I flew over from Brisbane to Auckland for the decider of Lions tour in 2017.
I sure many of the Aussie boys going next week will have same thoughts!!
I mean last time I went to a decider I flew over from Brisbane to Auckland for the decider of Lions tour in 2017.
I sure many of the Aussie boys going next week will have same thoughts!!
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