IRB U/20 Tournament and Oz Squad

[Ash]

Slim; if the Brumbies were top of the table right now, you can be sure that Colby and Hooper would not be going to the U20 World Cup. No doubt special dispensation was given on the basis that Hynes and Davies will likely not be seen again this season, and Lucas is a walking injury, as is Morahan, a little, currently, with both struggling to even finish games. Whenever Morahan or Lucas gets a(nother) knock in a game or can't start like this weekend, Shipperley will be desperately needed by the Reds.

Kingston is a different one, as the Tahs are certainly a big chance to make the finals. They have welcomed back recently Pakalani and BKH, which means that Kingston isn't crucial to their squad as Shipperley.

Personally, I would rather Shipperley was heading to the U20 World Cup, but can understand very well why he isn't. If the Reds win the title (or even make the final) and Shipperley didn't go, then definitely it was the right call.

 

[vidiot]

I'm obviously in a very small minority here so I'll leave it at that... but I just find it a bit rich that out of all the teams giving up players it is the Reds who kick up a stink...

I don't want to incite a riot, but the only stink-kicking is in this thread.

The reds have hardly gone kicked up a stink in the media (I have no idea what has happened behind closed doors) and they have negotiated an outcome that seems to have everyone in any way affected by it - the ARU, the u20team, or at least it's coach, the player, the reds - satisfied.

It would be negligent on the reds part not to do so, good on them for achieving it, and if both sides do well in the respective comps I think it is good for australian rugby. The only brumbies game it can possibly affect is the one against the reds, and I don't see that game as making or breaking the brumbies season, even if he runs in three tries.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

A new leader in the Brumbies' ranks
BY CHRIS DUTTON, RUGBY UNION
26 May, 2011 12:40 PM
ACT Brumbies flanker Colby Fainga'a has been named captain of the Australian under-20s team which will play at the junior world championships in Italy next month.

Fainga'a will miss the final month of the Brumbies' Super Rugby season to take his place in the Australian side.

The 20-year-old played at the same tournament last year, but has been given added responsibility of leading the team at this year's tournament.

Coach David Nucifora's 26-man touring party will assemble at the Sydney Institute of Sport in Narrabeen tomorrow.

Australia has been drawn alongside Fiji, France and Tonga in Pool B for the June 10-26 tournament.

Fainga'a will be joined be fellow Brumbies flanker Michael Hooper in the squad. Hooper will leave camp on Saturday morning to play one last game for the Brumbies this year in the clash against the Cape Town Stormers on Saturday night.

However, captain Fainga'a will remain with the Australian side. The team leaves Australia on Sunday morning.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/new...new-leader-in-the-brumbies-ranks/2175978.aspx

Could be a good omen having Colby as captain, our last World Cup success (U19 - 2006) was captained by Saia Fainga'a, with Anthony Fainga'a vice captain.


That said, that 2006 team did include, Ben Daley, Saia Fainga'a, Jack Kennedy, James Hanson, Jack Lam, Sam Wykes, AJ Gilbert, David Pocock, Pat McCutcheon, Will Genia, Josh Holmes, Christian Lealiifano, Anthony Fainga'a, Brando Vaaulu and Ben Lucas.. not a bad junior squad.

 

[twenty seven]

Bet the young lad replacing Dom doesn't mind the decision!

 

[Lee Grant]

Leave poor old Slim alone. Everybody is entitled to a tantrum. I have one every now and then and feel the better for it. My missus has them all the time and yet we are still going strong. [Mind you if anybody meets her perchance, there would be no need to mention that I said what I said.]


Meantime, back on the topic: I regret that Ship is staying in the port but glad that as a consequence Woodhouse is getting a shot. As last man into the squad it is unlikely that he will be considered for big games, but you never know with the injuries that are picked up in the tournament. Last year Bennetts and Hooper had to return home and if something happens to Morahan Jr. Woody will come into the frame, at least for a bench spot.


Woodhouse hasn't made his mark in senior rugby yet, being played at centre at Easts in lower grades last year and getting a start in the Manly Ones this year only when others are injured. Yet he and Toua have been the best schools fullbacks I have seen since about 2000, before which the memory fades, and he has been in the Tahs pro academy since school.


I hope he gets a shot at fullback and not just be a dogsbody.


The appointment of Colby as captain makes one assume that his starting place in the money games is assured. This narrows the options for Gill and Hooper, not to mention Quirk and Butler, but let's not rehash those things.


Since they will all be wearing gold jerseys let us not be polarised in opinions that this player is clearly better than the other or that A>B>C. People who have such clarity are to be congratulated but, in the matter of selections, it has been my experience that things aren't always black and white. There are valid shades of grey and splashes of other colours also.


Instead, let us trust that Nuci will make the right decisions on individuals and that, more importantly, he can get the players to play like wolves - all of them. Those team aspects of being predatory, taking advantage of opportunity and the weakness of others, pack hunting and howling with delight after the kill, are infinitely more important than the names of the wolves.
.

 

[Scotty]

I would like them to stay now as the Brumbies NEED them, but they've done the right thing in releasing them for the tournament... the Brumbies had the right to hold onto them and even considered the option...

I feel the Reds are being very poor sports about this...

Yeah, how dare the reds want to do what is best for them and give themselves and Australia in general the best opportunity to win the s15.

What a bunch of spoilt shits they are. That's it. I am going to hand back my reds membership tomorrow. I am thoroughly disgusted.

 

[Scotty]

I am surprised that some in this thread think that playing in an u20 world cup with other players of (obviously) the same age is better for development than playing super rugby with and against some if the worlds best players at the pointy end of the season. I have no doubt I. My mind that development occurs faster playing with the best of any age rather just the best of the younger ages.

 

[RedsHappy]

I am surprised that some in this thread think that playing in an u20 world cup with other players of (obviously) the same age is better for development than playing super rugby with and against some if the worlds best players at the pointy end of the season. I have no doubt I. My mind that development occurs faster playing with the best of any age rather just the best of the younger ages.

Scotty, not only must I agree with you, but I am staggered that any deeper fan of Australian rugby would not applaud the wisdom of prioritizing in every conceivable way the possibility of a once-great Australian rugby powerhouse recovering that glorious heritage and winning the first S15 title for our country for seven years, and thus gaining new prominence, attention and grand excitement for our code, placed with such fragility as it is today in the total Australian sporting landscape. Link would not seek the retention of one of his young steeds without genuine need in a noble cause. To deny him and Queensland this, in a moment at destiny's forge, would have been a travesty of almost unprecented proportion, and the very personification of poor strategic judgement in the interests of our beloved code.

 

[Red Rooster]

You have got to laugh at some of the comments on this thread - firstly the reds have lost a heap of good young players over the last 5-6 years who are now playing elsewhere. Everyone moans about it. Link arrives and makes a significant investment - signing 8 of the best young queenslanders to stem the flow and as a result has the highest number of u20 players in his contracted squad (4). All four have been involved in the game 22 this season or started, Gill 6 times, Quirk started the 2 games and off the bench for a couple, Shipperley has been in the last three games on the field. The Reds negotiate to keep just one to cover injuries. The problem really is that 7 other academy players - the next best were also chosen - thats 11Reds/Academy in the squad of 26 aust u20's - You can hardly argue that Queensland isn't doing its bit for the u20's by providing close to 45 % of the total players. The reality would be that Link should not have signed the younger players but then everyone would be moaning about why they were playing for the Rebels or Force. It is worth noting that a bunch have already played the previous season for the u20's so they already have experienced the tournament and perhaps players like Gill, Shipperly, Fainga'a, Hooper, Quirk might actually prefer to keep ther spots in the super teams rather than go to the u 20's again - The word is that many are happier to secure their professional spots

 

[DPK]

I am surprised that some in this thread think that playing in an u20 world cup with other players of (obviously) the same age is better for development than playing super rugby with and against some if the worlds best players at the pointy end of the season. I have no doubt I. My mind that development occurs faster playing with the best of any age rather just the best of the younger ages.

I disagree, but you seem pretty set in your beliefs. I don't think a counter argument could sway you.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

You have got to laugh at some of the comments on this thread - ............ players like Gill, Shipperly, Fainga'a, Hooper, Quirk might actually prefer to keep ther spots in the super teams rather than go to the u 20's again - The word is that many are happier to secure their professional spots

Well said that man.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

The Brumbies have some big games to round out the season and try and finish respectfully...

It obviously sucks for us that we have to release them but that something that's been on the cards for a while and you can't restrict these guys from represent ing their country...

I think you will find that the Brumbies didn't have to release them, as both have met the agreed requirements in terms of starts this season to be exempt. They have decided to let them go (and good on them) as they think it will aid their development. From all reports they see Colby F as providing leadership further down the road, given that he is the Captain of the u20 side.

I think the Brumbies management have done a good thing - they know the season is dusted for them, so in real terms it has no impact. Not the case for Qld however, with everything left to play for.

 

[Slim 293]

I think you will find that the Brumbies didn't have to release them, as both have met the agreed requirements in terms of starts this season to be exempt. They have decided to let them go (and good on them) as they think it will aid their development. From all reports they see Colby F as providing leadership further down the road, given that he is the Captain of the u20 side.

I think the Brumbies management have done a good thing - they know the season is dusted for them, so in real terms it has no impact. Not the case for Qld however, with everything left to play for.

Actually, I did know that and have already mentioned it...

The Brumbies did consider the option to hold onto them as they were short of forwards and the players indicated they would like to stay, but I applaud them for doing the right thing...

 

[TOCC]

Actually, I did know that and have already mentioned it...

The Brumbies did consider the option to hold onto them as they were short of forwards and the players indicated they would like to stay, but I applaud them for doing the right thing...

Its a matter of opinion to actually what is right, and given the circumstances, 'what is right' varies greatly between the Brumbies and the Reds..

Do you even know what Shipperly's opinion on the subject is? He has already played in a JWC GF, how do you know his preference isnt to represent the Reds in a possible finals push?

 

[Lee Grant]

I am very disappointed that this thread has turned into a provincial argument; provincial in more ways than one. Shame on us.

I'm sure that many players regret that they can't play for their Super team but there can be no honour greater than playing for one's country. For a majority it will be their only chance outside of schooldays. They'll have the rest of their rugby lives ahead of them for the Super stuff.

I hope that when we see them on the park that we can make comments on Australian players without reference to where they come from or what Super team they play for. And hopefully we will not revisit the topic of the availability or not of the players for Super Rugby. By all means do that on the Super team threads but leave this one for talking about Aussies.

Maybe we Australians are like we are because our country is so big and our rugby centres are so far apart, but hopefully, when we see then in gold jerseys, we will forget the other stuff.

And please: when we see the lads play let us work hard on noticing the merits of players who are not from our state, or the Super team we support, and not their deficiencies. And go easy on the provincial "I told you sos" afterwards.

 

[Scotty]

I disagree, but you seem pretty set in your beliefs. I don't think a counter argument could sway you.

Well, you gave it your best shot.

 

[fatprop]

The club vs country debate is a tough one.

Personally, I find it hard to understand why a guy would not want to travel to a world championships in Italy to play for Australia. But that is just me.

 

[DPK]

Well, you gave it your best shot.

Avast, ye temptress!

 

[Ruggo]

Are we not trying to create depth in this country? The Super Rugby under 20 players already have one foot in door of proffessional development. Bring on another batch of young talent through the Australian U/20's and expose them to the proffessional system. The game will be better served with the Super Rugby players remaining with their franchises under the programs they are already on.

 

[vidiot]

The club vs country debate is a tough one.

Personally, I find it hard to understand why a guy would not want to travel to a world championships in Italy to play for Australia. But that is just me.

He was one of the guys running around in the final last year when they were thrashed by the baby Blacks in Argentina, so I guess he has some idea of what he's missing.

I can't remember exactly how I watched it last year - it was a live stream rather than actually telecast, wasn't it? I hope we have the chance to see at least some of it this time around.

Edit: Decided to look for myself, no idea re fox sports but should be a bit to see online at the irb site. In fact, have started watching last years final again... Oops.