Illawarra Rugby 2012

[WorkingClassRugger]

Do the Christening WCR! Keep in the good books with the physio - a sound investment! Good luck with the exams and maybe see you at the Shammies game on 16/6 - that'll be a big day! It will probably be the first game I'll see as my young bloke has school rugby most Saturdays and is playing over the long weekend for Sydney Uni's U/17's at the State Championships!

Cheers, Wreckless

Which school does your young bloke attend?

 

[wreckless]

He's playing 6 or 7 in the Magoos at Newington! Had a good game against Joeys on Saturday - I have to admit I love the schools games ( plus the Canterbury/Sydney Uni games on Sunday!).

He loves his rugby and if he hadn't been in NSW Country sides for the last couple of years plus moving to school in Sydney he would have racked up over 100 games for Vikings Juniors since playing U/11's as an 8 year old!!!

I hope to see him in a sky blue jumper some day!!! .

Wreckless

 

[Tom Ando]

Good to hear from you X! . I agree - the comp needs a strong Highland franchise but there appear to be some schisms up there as you say. A splinter group from the Blacks went off and formed the Bundanoon rugby club and that severely weakened Bowral. Thay have some good juniors in the U/17's comp this year and hopefully will see some benefit in the not too distant future. In particular Harry Boyce, Jesse Elliot and Tim Lewis are standouts for Bowral juniors with Boyce and Lewis having repped for NSW Country over the last couple of years in their age division.

Re Soaks - you make a good point!!! Especially as UWA went down to Soaks last week by a point! .

Cheers, Wreckless

haha was just about to comment about this. I'm in that U/17's team and these three players are something to look for in the future. Timmy Lewis (Chode) has been in NSW Country for a few years now and could almost be played in any position. We put him in at centre the other week against Shoalhaven for a few minutes and in that game he scored 3 tries. Boycey also scored 3 tries and has the mongrel like no other player I know. Jesse will be a flanker to watch for the future. he started playing Rugby last year for our Chevalier U/16's team and will make close to 60-90 tackles a game, oh though it seems anyway.

Bowral Blacks juniors are in first or second place in all the age groups and our numbers are up 20% from last year and the most amount of players ever at the club. It's good too see as I have been playing since U/8's and went through a period where I had to play up two age groups every year and at one point played U/17's when I was 15.. scary stuff! But hopefully these players will move up into grade rugby which may be difficult considering there will be no 18's comp next year. Just also going to mention for prides sake the U/13's who I co-coach, who went from a their first season together 3 years ago, defeated in every game, to this year, 1 loss to Camden and at first on the table after narrowly missing out last year. Proud backs coach right here

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

haha was just about to comment about this. I'm in that U/17's team and these three players are something to look for in the future. Timmy Lewis (Chode) has been in NSW Country for a few years now and could almost be played in any position. We put him in at centre the other week against Shoalhaven for a few minutes and in that game he scored 3 tries. Boycey also scored 3 tries and has the mongrel like no other player I know. Jesse will be a flanker to watch for the future. he started playing Rugby last year for our Chevalier U/16's team and will make close to 60-90 tackles a game, oh though it seems anyway.

Bowral Blacks juniors are in first or second place in all the age groups and our numbers are up 20% from last year and the most amount of players ever at the club. It's good too see as I have been playing since U/8's and went through a period where I had to play up two age groups every year and at one point played U/17's when I was 15.. scary stuff! But hopefully these players will move up into grade rugby which may be difficult considering there will be no 18's comp next year. Just also going to mention for prides sake the U/13's who I co-coach, who went from a their first season together 3 years ago, defeated in every game, to this year, 1 loss to Camden and at first on the table after narrowly missing out last year. Proud backs coach right here

That was essentially the status quo during my junior days in the Illawarra competition. I often used to play both my age and then the next one above which apart from U14s it was usually 2 years above me. Though, I was always a larger kid.

 

[Tom Ando]

ahk haha for me I'm like one of the smallest kids so that doesnt help :/ haha

 

[wreckless]

That was essentially the status quo during my junior days in the Illawarra competition. I often used to play both my age and then the next one above which apart from U14s it was usually 2 years above me. Though, I was always a larger kid.

Who did you play your junior rugby with in Illawarra WCR?

The 2 year age gap is problematic with some electing not to play up and only playing every second year ( when they can bully the younger kids who have the guts to play up! ).

 

[wreckless]

haha was just about to comment about this. I'm in that U/17's team and these three players are something to look for in the future. Timmy Lewis (Chode) has been in NSW Country for a few years now and could almost be played in any position. We put him in at centre the other week against Shoalhaven for a few minutes and in that game he scored 3 tries. Boycey also scored 3 tries and has the mongrel like no other player I know. Jesse will be a flanker to watch for the future. he started playing Rugby last year for our Chevalier U/16's team and will make close to 60-90 tackles a game, oh though it seems anyway.

Harry Boyce was absolutely gypped at Country Championships this year - he had an outstanding tournament along with Stuart Mill from Illawarra and Sam Hefron from Hunter in the back row. Angus MacDougall from FNC deserved his spot but the other 3 were glaring omissions - the selectors went for BIG size guys who had no impact around the ground like the 3 mentioned above. The Country selectors couldn't pick their nose!!!

I hope Harry pursues other rep avenues this year, like NSW Country Schools!

 

[Hugie]

Wreckless,

This happened last year in the country U15s, it was a jaw dropping decision. It was big problem for the team that year which ended up performing well below potential.In all other areas it was a very good team with the likes of John Walker and Jakob Sedgman etc in it. One of the selectors this year admitted they'd made a mistake.

I think they pannick at the thought of playing Sydney (country inferiority complex) and think if they pick the "fat kid" this will help. It doesn't, they can't get to the breakdown, when they do they're not very effective, they can't get low enough in the scrum (i.e they only bend over) and so fold under the scrum pressure. Last year Manu Sutherland sent out a clear message we aren't picking the "fat kid" any more, they want a high work rate and committment over all else. It seems the country selectors just can't resist.

The message back to the boys who don't get selected when this happens, is keep up the work rate and committment. Go to the gym to train not to MacDonald, in the long run this will succeed over the alternative.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Who did you play your junior rugby with in Illawarra WCR?

The 2 year age gap is problematic with some electing not to play up and only playing every second year ( when they can bully the younger kids who have the guts to play up! ).

The Campbelltown Harlequins. Played there from age 12-15 in U13s x2, 14s and 15s officially but played most of the 15s (both u13s years) 16s and 17s each season as well. They had the numbers for both teams but I (and a few others in my actual team) were deemed good and large enough to handle the step up. When we weren't playing at the same venue the manager of the age above (same man each year) would pick us up after our game and drive to the next venue to be subbed on.

On one occasion, my team (U13s) were playing Uni in Campbelltown and the U15s were playing Vikings at Berkeley Sports (don't know why). The manager came up to my mother and the mother of our 8 man and told them that our respective fathers had okayed the transportation (neither had, they were both with the U11s at Berkeley that day and were very surprised to see us). We got out of the car, changed into our jersey's and ran onto the pitch. Literally minutes later with my first touch I drove up through the Vikes pack and scored. Off the kick off that followed I hit it up got over half way and offloaded to my U13s team mate who ran over one Vikes player before scoring under the posts.

Right after that the Vikes coach had the ref pull us off to review our rego cards. I remember this quite clearly coming from fathers mouth, " C'mon Jeff, you know they're legal. They're both in the U13s Rep team, you know the one you coach". Classic.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Who did you play your junior rugby with in Illawarra WCR?

The 2 year age gap is problematic with some electing not to play up and only playing every second year ( when they can bully the younger kids who have the guts to play up! ).

The very first game I played up was against Bowral. It was only my third game at the club. I got caught on the wrong side of the ruck and was genuinely unable to move. That didn't save my back from the treatment it got. This prick tap danced on my back. I had his stud marks on my back for 3 months after that.

Something like that is enough to turn someone off the game but it had the opposite effect on me. I found it drew me more toward it (what the hell was wrong with me

In the corresponding game at C'Town Showground later that season I got mine back. He ended up on the wrong side of the ruck.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Wreckless,

This happened last year in the country U15s, it was a jaw dropping decision. It was big problem for the team that year which ended up performing well below potential.In all other areas it was a very good team with the likes of John Walker and Jakob Sedgman etc in it. One of the selectors this year admitted they'd made a mistake.

I think they pannick at the thought of playing Sydney (country inferiority complex) and think if they pick the "fat kid" this will help. It doesn't, they can't get to the breakdown, when they do they're not very effective, they can't get low enough in the scrum (i.e they only bend over) and so fold under the scrum pressure. Last year Manu Sutherland sent out a clear message we aren't picking the "fat kid" any more, they want a high work rate and committment over all else. It seems the country selectors just can't resist.

The message back to the boys who don't get selected when this happens, is keep up the work rate and committment. Go to the gym to train not to MacDonald, in the long run this will succeed over the alternative.

They're not doing these kids prospects any good by ignoring Manu's directive. Having dealt with the man throughout my juniors, you listen to what he says. He was telling my old man about my selection in the NSW u17s while I was playing a very tough Parramatta at Chatswood and how if I kept my work rate up it was a no brainer. I hit the wall not long after that ( It was my 3rd game of the weekend as I had played Colts earlier and was buggered). Bang I was off his list. Ruthless, but still a genuinely lovely bloke.

Actually both he and Ben Whittaker are in charge of the Gold squad system from memory. Knew them both. Played at the same junior club a Whits and his more famous brother when I moved from the Illawarra comp.

 

[wreckless]

The Campbelltown Harlequins. Played there from age 12-15 in U13s x2, 14s and 15s officially but played most of the 15s (both u13s years) 16s and 17s each season as well. They had the numbers for both teams but I (and a few others in my actual team) were deemed good and large enough to handle the step up. When we weren't playing at the same venue the manager of the age above (same man each year) would pick us up after our game and drive to the next venue to be subbed on.

On one occasion, my team (U13s) were playing Uni in Campbelltown and the U15s were playing Vikings at Berkeley Sports (don't know why). The manager came up to my mother and the mother of our 8 man and told them that our respective fathers had okayed the transportation (neither had, they were both with the U11s at Berkeley that day and were very surprised to see us). We got out of the car, changed into our jersey's and ran onto the pitch. Literally minutes later with my first touch I drove up through the Vikes pack and scored. Off the kick off that followed I hit it up got over half way and offloaded to my U13s team mate who ran over one Vikes player before scoring under the posts.

Right after that the Vikes coach had the ref pull us off to review our rego cards. I remember this quite clearly coming from fathers mouth, " C'mon Jeff, you know they're legal. They're both in the U13s Rep team, you know the one you coach". Classic.

Not only "like" this - love it! . Especially the "duping" of the mums by those devious managers! Just love it!

I played against the "Mighty Quins" back in the late 70's and they were prominent in IDRU finals in that era - they just couldn't decide where to play ( Illawarra or Subbies ) or maybe they were too strong for Illawarra!!! Conspiracy theories abound!

Cheers, Wreckless

 

[wreckless]

Wreckless,

This happened last year in the country U15s, it was a jaw dropping decision. It was big problem for the team that year which ended up performing well below potential.In all other areas it was a very good team with the likes of John Walker and Jakob Sedgman etc in it. One of the selectors this year admitted they'd made a mistake.

I think they pannick at the thought of playing Sydney (country inferiority complex) and think if they pick the "fat kid" this will help. It doesn't, they can't get to the breakdown, when they do they're not very effective, they can't get low enough in the scrum (i.e they only bend over) and so fold under the scrum pressure. Last year Manu Sutherland sent out a clear message we aren't picking the "fat kid" any more, they want a high work rate and committment over all else. It seems the country selectors just can't resist.

The message back to the boys who don't get selected when this happens, is keep up the work rate and committment. Go to the gym to train not to MacDonald, in the long run this will succeed over the alternative.

Hugie - you make some excellent points! Have a look now at the prime movers in the backrow internationally and see the body shape of the best 7's going round - Pocock, Hooper, Robinson ( not to mention 6's like Broussow! ). Yes - the 8's are generally tall and mobile, but seriously - the days of just having behemoth forwards who are not multi-skilled and mobile are over! I know what you are getting at when you talk about the "fat kid" but in the NSWCRU they have gone " tall & slow" instead of "big & fat" so the impact at the breakdown is minimal! Where's the "rat up a drain pipe" that they need?

Harry Boyce was the Man of The Match last year in City vs. Country but still couldn't get picked for NSW! Even in a 22 all game! Papworth got picked from Country ( helps to have a well known Wallaby name - and nothing against the kid, he's a good'un! Lost from Country to the Southport School in QLD I believe? ).

Former Country captain Nick Penisi is playing 1st's for Joey's in GPS as is Jono Hardy. Stuart Mill is at Newington and doing great. Rory Davis, Corey Tulloch and Nick Andrews are in the 1st's at Kings. Colby Hawkins and Jamaine Crossley are doing well for Scots. All in the same team for NSW Country U/15's two years ago - what does it say for the "pathway" through NSW Country because of dodgy selections and selection criteria???

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Not only "like" this - love it! . Especially the "duping" of the mums by those devious managers! Just love it!

I played against the "Mighty Quins" back in the late 70's and they were prominent in IDRU finals in that era - they just couldn't decide where to play ( Illawarra or Subbies ) or maybe they were too strong for Illawarra!!! Conspiracy theories abound!

Cheers, Wreckless

The seniors section of the club was rife ambition which lead to its move to Subbies.

 

[Hugie]

Hugie - you make some excellent points! Have a look now at the prime movers in the backrow internationally and see the body shape of the best 7's going round - Pocock, Hooper, Robinson ( not to mention 6's like Broussow! ). Yes - the 8's are generally tall and mobile, but seriously - the days of just having behemoth forwards who are not multi-skilled and mobile are over! I know what you are getting at when you talk about the "fat kid" but in the NSWCRU they have gone " tall & slow" instead of "big & fat" so the impact at the breakdown is minimal! Where's the "rat up a drain pipe" that they need?

Harry Boyce was the Man of The Match last year in City vs. Country but still couldn't get picked for NSW! Even in a 22 all game! Papworth got picked from Country ( helps to have a well known Wallaby name - and nothing against the kid, he's a good'un! Lost from Country to the Southport School in QLD I believe? ).

Former Country captain Nick Penisi is playing 1st's for Joey's in GPS as is Jono Hardy. Stuart Mill is at Newington and doing great. Rory Davis, Corey Tulloch and Nick Andrews are in the 1st's at Kings. Colby Hawkins and Jamaine Crossley are doing well for Scots. All in the same team for NSW Country U/15's two years ago - what does it say for the "pathway" through NSW Country because of dodgy selections and selection criteria???

Wreckless,

I watch the remaining Illawarra team play at the country championships this year. I was very impressed with how they played, given the number of players they lost to the GPS. The Illawarra is really producing some very good players who understand the patterns of play and the work rate that rugby requires, so that a lot of star players can be taken out and Illawarra can still put a good team on.

I think that the Illawarra academy of sport program has a lot to do with this. All of the Southern Sydney/Woll boys that were selected in the NSWCCC team were products of IAS.

I don't think it says anything about the country pathway, but more about the GPS rugby program. The GPS coaches need to come down to the Illawrra and learn how to coach rugby, so they can produce their own rugby players.

 

[wreckless]

Wreckless,

I watch the remaining Illawarra team play at the country championships this year. I was very impressed with how they played, given the number of players they lost to the GPS. The Illawarra is really producing some very good players who understand the patterns of play and the work rate that rugby requires, so that a lot of star players can be taken out and Illawarra can still put a good team on.

I think that the Illawarra academy of sport program has a lot to do with this. All of the Southern Sydney/Woll boys that were selected in the NSWCCC team were products of IAS.

I don't think it says anything about the country pathway, but more about the GPS rugby program. The GPS coaches need to come down to the Illawrra and learn how to coach rugby, so they can produce their own rugby players.

Sorry Hugie - disagree with this! I was at the Academy games and the standard was well below par as far as I was concerned! I commented that I was glad that I hadn't gone to Armidale the previous 2 years to watch a competition that was so crap!

What stood out to me was was the rugby league players in the RU program who haven't learned anything with their stupid cross kicks on the first phase and ridiculous "grubber" kicks! In rugby you have to value the ball and possession - not give it away - why is the IAS program full of mungoes??? It was appalling to watch!

GPS coaches attract the cream of the crop - they can't learn anything from the IDRU coaches or system, in fact the opposite. Illawarra coaches can only deal with what they have to work with - and the criteria for Ilawarra in U/17's was " please will you play"!!! They were still begging for players on the night before country champs! Imagine how well they may have gone if they had 15 at training instead of 6 or 8 or 10!

 

[Hugie]

wreckless- I think you just largely agreed with me. My point is that the U17s team had been gutted by the GPS, no team could sustain loosing that many talented players without being very badly affected. My view is that given the disaster that unfolded in the shadow of that gutting (loss of players loss of spirit), the U17s did remarkably well, they had to beg borrow or steal any body they could. I was anticipating cricket scores against them at the country championships, they did well in the end. It had nothing to do with bad coaching.

Yes the GPS is attracting the cream of the crop BUT it would be better for Australian rugby if the Illawarra (and other counrty districts) could keep the cream that they produce and the GPS produced its' own cream (more cream to go around). Unfortunately in Kings and Scots there are now boys who have been displaced by IAS products and the Illawarra doesn't have its own product ie a Zero sum game. Who knows how the Kings and Scots boys reacted, let's hope without too much bitterness.

The number of league players in the RU in the Illawarra is inevitable, it is league heartland (just look at the number of Illawarra players in the Bues team last night). This causes huge problems in getting a holding outside backs. Illawarra usually produces good forward packs.

If the IAS coaching is so bad why would the GPS outlay hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of scolarships to attract IAS product?

 

[wreckless]

wreckless- I think you just largely agreed with me. My point is that the U17s team had been gutted by the GPS, no team could sustain loosing that many talented players without being very badly affected. My view is that given the disaster that unfolded in the shadow of that gutting (loss of players loss of spirit), the U17s did remarkably well, they had to beg borrow or steal any body they could. I was anticipating cricket scores against them at the country championships, they did well in the end. It had nothing to do with bad coaching.

Yes the GPS is attracting the cream of the crop BUT it would be better for Australian rugby if the Illawarra (and other counrty districts) could keep the cream that they produce and the GPS produced its' own cream (more cream to go around). Unfortunately in Kings and Scots there are now boys who have been displaced by IAS products and the Illawarra doesn't have its own product ie a Zero sum game. Who knows how the Kings and Scots boys reacted, let's hope without too much bitterness.

The number of league players in the RU in the Illawarra is inevitable, it is league heartland (just look at the number of Illawarra players in the Bues team last night). This causes huge problems in getting a holding outside backs. Illawarra usually produces good forward packs.

If the IAS coaching is so bad why would the GPS outlay hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of scolarships to attract IAS product?

Not having a go at the coaching at all! John Noonan did a great job with what he had and considering he never had a full team at training until the actual country championship weekend! Jay Tregonning and his team do a great job at IAS as well given the confines of that format.

The problem is the "Pathways" after NSW Country - if you don't go further than Illawarra at country championships ( ie. get picked for NSW Country ) then that's it - back to club rugby! There are just more "pathways" and opportunities when boys go to Sydney for their rugby development. Ask Harry next time you see him - I hope he has pursued the Country Schools option!

 

[wreckless]

WCR - will you be at the big game tomorrow vs. Shamrocks ( aka The Green Slime!!! ) ?
It's "Longhorns Day" so I will be there of course! We should try to catch up - come to the Longhorns marquee and ask for Wreckless!

Same goes for you Bruce! I bet you'd see a bunch of friends and foes alike!!!

 

[Bruce Ross]

I feel guilty about not getting down to the game, wreckless, but I'm committed each week to watch some of Sydney Uni's teams.