Ewen McKenzie: Wallaby Coach

[jay-c]

He got off sure, but I challenge any man who's seen Horwill stomp Dan Palmer v the brumbies a couple of months ago and saw this incident to convince me these are two unfortunate accidents-
Do not forget that Horwill has a history of being a hothead (which train without a station has so kindly reminded us of above)
Let me make it clear- while being the source of his greatest strength, horwills emotions or inability to control them is what I perceive as his greatest weakness.
By "releasing" his emotions in full view of the opposition, Horwill showed that the wallabies had given everything they had in the 2nd test and this surely gave the lions confidence knowing they only had to play a little better to beat the wallabies in the 3rd test- Gatland, I believe suggested as much in a post match interview.
I'd also like to point out that following our two most recent games Horwill has cried after the game- now, I can excuse this under circumstance, however we are in a position now where the rest of the world jokes that our leader balls his eyes out after every game
THE WELSH PLAYERS WERE LAUGHING AT HIM DURING HIS SPEECH FFS!
Do you think they respect him? Do you think they respect us?

 

[Sully]

Take Pocock out of that side & put Horwill in and you would have not won any more games.
The Force are at least a couple of years and a coach away from being a good side.

Disagree completely. They would have given away a lot less penalties under horwill.

 

[Sully]

i agree that pocock might not be the best option,
but what i can see is what our opponents see- and i see is a captain unable to control his emotions, this to me is a glaring weakness

If you looked at the decision making process it's not done without consulting senior team members. Mowen and Genia were consulted before the scrum in the second test. If you want to look even further back to Reds games you'll see the same.

 

[Train Without a Station]

THE WELSH PLAYERS WERE LAUGHING AT HIM DURING HIS SPEECH FFS!
Do you think they respect him? Do you think they respect us?

I'd be doubtful that Welsh players would be laughing at the captain of the country that has beaten them something like 7 times in a row.

 

[scaraby]

He got off sure, but I challenge any man who's seen Horwill stomp Dan Palmer v the brumbies a couple of months ago and saw this incident to convince me these are two unfortunate accidents-
Do not forget that Horwill has a history of being a hothead (which train without a station has so kindly reminded us of above)
Let me make it clear- while being the source of his greatest strength, horwills emotions or inability to control them is what I perceive as his greatest weakness.
By "releasing" his emotions in full view of the opposition, Horwill showed that the wallabies had given everything they had in the 2nd test and this surely gave the lions confidence knowing they only had to play a little better to beat the wallabies in the 3rd test- Gatland, I believe suggested as much in a post match interview.
I'd also like to point out that following our two most recent games Horwill has cried after the game- now, I can excuse this under circumstance, however we are in a position now where the rest of the world jokes that our leader balls his eyes out after every game
THE WELSH PLAYERS WERE LAUGHING AT HIM DURING HIS SPEECH FFS!
Do you think they respect him? Do you think they respect us?

I'll have to agree to disagree ..have no history with Horwill but what i see I like,hopefully I get a chance to chat to him one day and confirm my opinion. I don't like to make opinions of other people before I meet them myself. If you have had that priviledge and have formed that opinion then I shall respect it.

 

[Bairdy]

He got off sure, but I challenge any man who's seen Horwill stomp Dan Palmer v the brumbies a couple of months ago and saw this incident to convince me these are two unfortunate accidents-
Do not forget that Horwill has a history of being a hothead (which train without a station has so kindly reminded us of above)
Let me make it clear- while being the source of his greatest strength, horwills emotions or inability to control them is what I perceive as his greatest weakness.
By "releasing" his emotions in full view of the opposition, Horwill showed that the wallabies had given everything they had in the 2nd test and this surely gave the lions confidence knowing they only had to play a little better to beat the wallabies in the 3rd test- Gatland, I believe suggested as much in a post match interview.
I'd also like to point out that following our two most recent games Horwill has cried after the game- now, I can excuse this under circumstance, however we are in a position now where the rest of the world jokes that our leader balls his eyes out after every game
THE WELSH PLAYERS WERE LAUGHING AT HIM DURING HIS SPEECH FFS!
Do you think they respect him? Do you think they respect us?

What's wrong with displaying some emotion? I'd much rather Horwill showing his disappointment by tearing up, then JOC (James O'Connor) who looked indifferent after losing, and even said in his post match presser, that "[the Lions] wanted it more than us" !

 

[Bairdy]

It's a nonsensical issue anyway this argument about emotions getting the better of Horwill when captaining the Wallabies. There's other guys who assist him, ie. Genia and Mowen, so you might as well 'blame' them, for Horwill 'releasing his emotions' when going for the corner instead of 3s.

 

[Bardon]

Personally I prefer a captain who wears his heart on his sleeve. There's nothing worse than listening to an interview from a captain/coach (ala Declan Kidney) who just runs out the same old stock phrases. They manage to talk for 5 minutes without actually saying anything.

Moments like Horwill's after the 2nd test or a captain who makes it very clear that a bad performance wasn't good enough are what make me look up to them.

Someone like Paul O'Connell who is full of emotion and can lift those around him and make them play better than they themselves thought possible is the type of captain I like. I'd take that type of guy over a media coached stoney faced guy any day of the week.

Yes Horwill made bad calls, there's isn't a captain out there who hasn't made mistakes. But looking at the alternatives I think Horwill is the best guy for now at least. Genia seems to have a very short fuse and seems to suffer a bit of the red mist at times. Pocock is an excellent player, many times I've seen him win test matches through his excellent play, but there are times that his poor captaincy have lost tests. His performance (in terms of captaincy) against Scotland was one of the worst I've ever witnessed.

He looks nailed on for his spot at the moment and that's important for a captain. when that position changes hopefully Link has someone (possibly Mowen) ready to step in and take over the captaincy.

 

[TOCC]

THE WELSH PLAYERS WERE LAUGHING AT HIM DURING HIS SPEECH FFS!
Do you think they respect him? Do you think they respect us?

Rubbish

 

[The Red Baron]

He got off sure, but I challenge any man who's seen Horwill stomp Dan Palmer v the brumbies a couple of months ago and saw this incident to convince me these are two unfortunate accidents-
Do not forget that Horwill has a history of being a hothead (which train without a station has so kindly reminded us of above)
Let me make it clear- while being the source of his greatest strength, horwills emotions or inability to control them is what I perceive as his greatest weakness.
By "releasing" his emotions in full view of the opposition, Horwill showed that the wallabies had given everything they had in the 2nd test and this surely gave the lions confidence knowing they only had to play a little better to beat the wallabies in the 3rd test- Gatland, I believe suggested as much in a post match interview.
I'd also like to point out that following our two most recent games Horwill has cried after the game- now, I can excuse this under circumstance, however we are in a position now where the rest of the world jokes that our leader balls his eyes out after every game
THE WELSH PLAYERS WERE LAUGHING AT HIM DURING HIS SPEECH FFS!
Do you think they respect him? Do you think they respect us?

What on earth are you on about?

To say that a display of post match emotion was the confidence boost the Lions needed is a very long bow indeed. I would suggest that there is absolutely no correlation between the two.

And to also suggest that a player is not a good leader because they display emotion is an intriguing position. You do know Horwill is a human being right? We aren't Vulcans, people show emotion, and it is indeed ok to do so. Show me a successful leader who managed to deliver a rousing speech devoid of emotion. What I think you are doing here is clutching at straws and highlighting points which aren't actually true. I really don't think the Welsh were laughing at Horwill. From memory they had just won their first Lions tour since 1997. I think they would have been more preoccupied with that than with Horwill. What you are suggesting in your above posts is that the Lions had a fixation on Horwill as a captain.

Now as Sully pointed out, we know you aren't a fan. However, please post a rational argument when stating your case though.

 

[jay-c]

Now as Sully pointed out, we know you aren't a fan. However, please post a rational argument when stating your case though.

what a stupid comment
read my posts and you will see I have made a rational argument and given good reasoning for my claim
Im yet to see any logical reason to suggest im wrong- if anything the claims supporting horwills emotions lend weight to what ive said
I agree that theres not many better choices at the moment thou

now im yet to watch the replay but when i watched it live i saw horwill sobbing and channel 10 coverage crossed to mike phillips (and i think sexton) who were laughing at him, this is what i was pointing out
if someone wants to watch it again and prove me wrong id be very happy
(seriously- I dont sleep well at night knowing our captain was laughed at while sobbing through a speech after a loss)

this is not the exact quote i was looking for but it was along these same lines from gatland
" We knew how important the emotion Australia brought to the second Test last week was. We wondered if they could bring that emotional level again. We reckoned there was another level in us emotionally and we were able to produce that tonight."

feel free to disagree with me, but do not twist my words to change the meaning

 

[Hawko]

So the ARU has apparently managed to interview Link and Jake as part of a process to replace Robbie, since Feb this year, and it would appear that it didn't leak to the media. Are we forced to think this was an impressive effort by the ARU?

There's a lot more that was impressive too!

• McKenzie's admission that he had been in discussion/consultation with the ARU for months without realising they were at the same time evaluating him for the job. To be able do that takes real people skills.
• Pulver's clear message that Dingo was gone regardless of the Lions results. Clearly the ARU had made a decision on the incumbent coaching position much earlier than we the public recognised and then went about getting all their balls in a row without it ever once leaking. That is seriously impressive! It also speaks to a much better ARU board operation where board members are committed to discussions behind closed doors and there's no white-anting by individuals in the media. Loyalty to each other - its almost unheard of.
• The depth of planning and thought that seems to be going into the big decisions the ARU has to make. This was not JON's style and I like it.

I for one am beginning to hope that we'll see a continuation of the disciplined, thorough approach we have seen since Pulver took over.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I for one am beginning to hope that we'll see a continuation of the disciplined, thorough approach we have seen since Pulver took over.

Made a cracking start hasn't he...

The thing I like about Pulver is that he has some skin the game and seems to love rugby like one of us would. One of his boys plays rep footy and it therefore means Pulver sees the pointy end of things and probably gets some pretty direct feedback from the grass roots. I like that. Listening to some recent comments from Michael Hawker suggests something similar.

 

[Slim 293]

what a stupid comment
read my posts and you will see I have made a rational argument and given good reasoning for my claim
Im yet to see any logical reason to suggest im wrong- if anything the claims supporting horwills emotions lend weight to what ive said
I agree that theres not many better choices at the moment thou

now im yet to watch the replay but when i watched it live i saw horwill sobbing and channel 10 coverage crossed to mike phillips (and i think sexton) who were laughing at him, this is what i was pointing out
if someone wants to watch it again and prove me wrong id be very happy
(seriously- I dont sleep well at night knowing our captain was laughed at while sobbing through a speech after a loss)

Not only are you wrong, but you might consider consulting your GP on what medication is available to you..........

 

[jay-c]

Not only are you wrong, but you might consider consulting your GP on what medication is available to you....

just to confirm> you have seen the footage of channel 10 during horwills speech that was live?
please correct me as to what the lions players were laughing at
It is entirely likely I saw it wrong and live in hope someone can tell me Im mistaken. but it didnt look good and i wasnt alone while watching it

 

[Slim 293]

Just watched it on youtube........

Nothing there..........

Just one cutaway shot of the victorious team in typical celebratory mood........

 

[Dan54]

You know the other good thing about Link getting appointed, it a good reminder to all the posters one here that have been rubbishing Pulver for not rplacing Deans,supposedly saying to someone who posts on here that Link wouldn't get job etc. Perhaps you will realise that ARU actually makes decisions or certainly discusses them without having to throw it open to everyone to discuss on internet forums.

 

[Zander]

Most people misunderstood what Pulver said before the Lions series.

 

[scaraby]

I don't know how to post a new thread ...what say we have a chat about Links support crew...I'll start with a vote for Kafe...smart cooky and a good complement for Link. If not then Bernie who by all accounts is a very good backs coach but probably a bit green.
Wouldnt mind seeing a panellish kind of situation where Link can sit Cheiks and Jake White and even Foley for the forwards in a room and get some secrets....any suggestions?

 

[jay-c]

Just watched it on youtube....

Nothing there....

Just one cutaway shot of the victorious team in typical celebratory mood....

thats not what went live
during the live broadcast during stirlos interview they showed shots of the lions players and crowd- on youtube the interview is uninterrupted
going to require someone who has the live recording from channel 10 to confirm this one~